Wedge Pack: More cattle attacked in Stevens County (poll and letter)

[Northway]

Here we go again...

Actually, you're right. My posts obviously derailed the thread.

[RG]

Ridgeratt, I like your collection and hope it continues to grow and grow.  I like the house too...

[Atroxus]

hello troll or should I say northway... move along nothing to see here 

Huh?  What did he say that is trolling?

[pianoman9701]

If we're just talking about a specific pack that is depredating in a given area and that pack is slated for removal, what's the point of giving a permit out to everyone in the county? WDFW/WS agents are perfectly capable of taking out an entire wolf pack on their own. It's been done plenty of times in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. Either a wolf/wolves are already collared and the pack is easier to track, or they go in and collar a judas wolf to lead them back to the rest of the pack.

Actually, they're not capable and they've shown it. They don't hire near the number of trappers they need now just to tag/collar wolves and monitor new packs because their budget is way too small to do this AND pay the losses to ranchers. It sounds to me like 1. You have little experience in the wild, and 2. You have no experience with wolves and their effect on livestock and wild ungulates.

I may be wrong, but it sure sounds to me like you're a city dweller full of romantic notions about these beautiful, howling doggies. They are killing machines and once they find easy food, they teach each other about it, too. They're hard to hunt and without poison, incredibly hard to control. Just ask the wildlife departments of ID, MT, and WY. They'll all tell you.

I'm not saying I'm in favor of poisoning. I AM saying that the WDFW is way over their heads on controlling these animals on their own and they know it. They just can't possibly publicly admit it.

[Miles]

hello troll or should I say northway... move along nothing to see here 

Huh?  What did he say that is trolling?

It's not so much of what he said....


You can just smell them through the computer screen once you've been around a while. 

[Special T]

ID is getting ready to hold a "Summit"  to change the mission of the IDFG. They have invited a bunch of  "conservationsists" ie bunny huggers to be part of the process. It would seem that ID is getting ready to go down the same failed path that Washington has. 

[Northway]

If we're just talking about a specific pack that is depredating in a given area and that pack is slated for removal, what's the point of giving a permit out to everyone in the county? WDFW/WS agents are perfectly capable of taking out an entire wolf pack on their own. It's been done plenty of times in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. Either a wolf/wolves are already collared and the pack is easier to track, or they go in and collar a judas wolf to lead them back to the rest of the pack.

Actually, they're not capable and they've shown it. They don't hire near the number of trappers they need now just to tag/collar wolves and monitor new packs because their budget is way too small to do this AND pay the losses to ranchers. It sounds to me like 1. You have little experience in the wild, and 2. You have no experience with wolves and their effect on livestock and wild ungulates.

I may be wrong, but it sure sounds to me like you're a city dweller full of romantic notions about these beautiful, howling doggies. They are killing machines and once they find easy food, they teach each other about it, too. They're hard to hunt and without poison, incredibly hard to control. Just ask the wildlife departments of ID, MT, and WY. They'll all tell you.

I'm not saying I'm in favor of poisoning. I AM saying that the WDFW is way over their heads on controlling these animals on their own and they know it. They just can't possibly publicly admit it.

I can't say that I have romantic notions about any animal. I am weird about moose though - I have an unreasonable fear of them.

It's true, I live in the heart of the concrete jungle. However, most of my life has been spent outside of the city, and I've had many experiences throughout my life that tie me into these kinds of issues in more than just a superficial way - i.e. the "city dweller" who has never left town. I can't say I'm living here right now for my health. 

I respect your knowledge of the wild, but I don't think it's fair to assume that all people who spend time in the backcountry are going to draw the same conclusions on all issues relating to wildlife.  I'm not here to change your mind or trash other viewpoints, I'm here because I enjoy different perspectives and the dialogue that goes with them. I'm specifically interested in folks' ideas for wolf management in between the two extremes, i.e. NO wolf management vs. SSS, kill them all immediately.

We're in agreement that the WDFW does not currently have the resources it needs to effectively implement a wolf management plan. My comments were meant to be more limited to their ability to implement a control action on the Wedge Pack specifically, or another collared, identified pack in a known area, not their ability to handle an overall wolf management plan. What I don't know, and what maybe someone can answer for me, is whether WDFW ever contracts with Wildlife Services for control actions. I'm pretty sure IDFG does in Idaho. I don't know whether that would come out of the Wildlife Services budget, or whether it's billed to the respective game department. Maybe the nature of their association is different in WA and only the two hired WDFW trappers are used, ever.   

I'm definitely against poisoning. I think there is just too much by-catch. Some fellow planted poison way up in the Bob Marshall Wilderness recently, got a handful of wolves, six bald eagles, and who knows what else. That could probably be considered the norm when it comes to poisoning. I'm hoping the liberal hunting/trapping seasons that will be in effect over in Idaho will prove that those methods can be effective in managing wolf populations.

[pianoman9701]

Northway, I appreciate your honesty and your respectful reply. I'm not under any impression that poisoning is ever going to be used legally in the lower 48 again. This is why it's so imperative to manage problem wolves and packs with every other tool necessary, to include the general hunting population and to give the affected farmers what they need to protect their livelihood. In the case of this Wedge Pack, they should get down and dirty now.

[Special T]

Northway, thankyou  for you responce. Unfortunately liberal hunting and trapping won't help us here in this state. A study was done outside the Denali NP in AK and it found that only 3-6% of the population of wolves would be harvested through the normal course of hunting. Harvest goals of 50-70% of the existing population was necessary to keep a STABLE population of wolves(zero gain).  In AK they had liberal hunting, trapping and aerial gunning. this study was in responce to AK loosing its aerial hunting ability.     

ID has used aerial gunning but it was not very effective because of the steep terrain. ID allows the use of foothold traps, WA does not.
2 of the major tools to control wolves are not an option, in this state. This state seems to have a love affair with all matter of predators, from sealions, wolves, Mergansers, courgars, bears, and even the lowly coyote. 

Since the restriction of no hound hunting for bear or cougar has been in place, hunting cougars has NOT been able to achieve harvest goals. YET the WDFW has chosen to try and make it HARDER to harvest them. We got them to take away their BS weapons restrictions, and STILL we cannot harvest their numbers which are overly conservative... Last year some Numb Nut that works at the WDFW tired to put some idiotic restrictions on night hunting coyotes, to only use Bird shot, or 22 cal rifles!  Their own attempt to change policy made NO sense! 

Wolves are not an Isolated issue. the Duff's Love affair with ALL predators and their LACK of management and understanding of the issues is the major cause for concern. We have some fellow hunters and anglers in the WDFW but they are ineffective, silenced, and/or out numbered. We need to take the WDFW kicking and screaming in the right direction, because they have proven through their ACTIONS that they are NOT a partner in managing our resources. 

[Kola16]

Now when we say liberal hunting...do we mean hunting liberals 

[sebek556]

Northway, thankyou  for you responce. Unfortunately liberal hunting and trapping won't help us here in this state. A study was done outside the Denali NP in AK and it found that only 3-6% of the population of wolves would be harvested through the normal course of hunting. Harvest goals of 50-70% of the existing population was necessary to keep a STABLE population of wolves(zero gain).  In AK they had liberal hunting, trapping and aerial gunning. this study was in responce to AK loosing its aerial hunting ability.     

ID has used aerial gunning but it was not very effective because of the steep terrain. ID allows the use of foothold traps, WA does not.
2 of the major tools to control wolves are not an option, in this state. This state seems to have a love affair with all matter of predators, from sealions, wolves, Mergansers, courgars, bears, and even the lowly coyote. 

Since the restriction of no hound hunting for bear or cougar has been in place, hunting cougars has NOT been able to achieve harvest goals. YET the WDFW has chosen to try and make it HARDER to harvest them. We got them to take away their BS weapons restrictions, and STILL we cannot harvest their numbers which are overly conservative... Last year some Numb Nut that works at the WDFW tired to put some idiotic restrictions on night hunting coyotes, to only use Bird shot, or 22 cal rifles!  Their own attempt to change policy made NO sense! 

Wolves are not an Isolated issue. the Duff's Love affair with ALL predators and their LACK of management and understanding of the issues is the major cause for concern. We have some fellow hunters and anglers in the WDFW but they are ineffective, silenced, and/or out numbered. We need to take the WDFW kicking and screaming in the right direction, because they have proven through their ACTIONS that they are NOT a partner in managing our resources. 

Very good special T.. 

[Johnb317]

 
Too many people anthropomorphise all animals in nature and only know, or care to know the Disney version of nature. 
The road to hell is paved in good intentions, and wolves will start eating campers when they run out of deer, elk, coyotes, etc. .    Money seems to be the only thing that talks, and Idaho depends on hunters dollars.  Hopefully gov otter can continue the course. 

[Special T]

I'm not sure Gov Ottere is the savior. There is some ingrained anti hunting in many FW departments across the nation. I think these agencies see it as a revinue problem, not a quality of service problem. 

[Ridgeratt]

where did you hide my dream house at? 

Well sad part is that it's not my place. But it does belong to an outfitter buddy in Oklahoma. 
I'm some what opinionated on what happens in this unit. Last nite I let Emotion over rule Common sense when I posted the photos. I have since removed them.

[seth30]

where did you hide my dream house at? 

Well sad part is that it's not my place. But it does belong to an outfitter buddy in Oklahoma. 
I'm some what opinionated on what happens in this unit. Last nite I let Emotion over rule Common sense when I posted the photos. I have since removed them.

Wow, next time I hear of Oklahoma Im going to think of a cool rug and full mount