Feedback from guys who know what they are doing :)

[Heetor]

Hey guys, I was hoping to to get some feedback from the experts on bear calling, and bear hunting in general.  I moved to Whatcom country last summer from Tennessee, so I am pretty new to the area and bear hunting.  Though I am really getting passionate about it as this is a very challenging hunt.

I have shot a couple of bears over the years up in northern Canada, where I go on a moose hunting trip every year, but those were more target of opportunity kills when I stumbled across one.  I have quite a bit of experience hunting moose, deer, elk and hogs, but bear is new to me, I had never set out to go bear hunting specifically before last year.  I spent a lot of time studying bear calling, reading posts on the site and info online, watching youtube videos on calling techniques, and scouting likely spots within a hour of my house, (based on the little I had learnt).  I made it out for bear a total of 6 day trips last year, had a great time getting beat up by the terrain, but no shots fired.

Had a really nice bear at 650 yards once, but couldn't get any closer to him, and spotted two feeding in a valley on another trip.  I think I may have almost called one in last year as there was a lot of thrashing in the bush about 50 yards behind me after I had been calling for about 15 minutes, but never got a look at whatever it was.  I guess not bad for a first year at bear hunting, I had some action on about 3 out of 6 trips, but sure would like to pull a trigger.  I did get 2 deer, a moose and a hog last year, so it was a good season overall but would have been better with a bear .

I have been back at the research and scouting trips through the summer this year, and have what I think is a nice spot ready to go, (this is the valley where I saw bears last year in the late fall).  I have found a trail where I only have a 1 mile hike into the valley from where I can park my truck, previously my trail  was a couple of miles over the mountain, so making 3-4 trips to pack a bear out would have been a tough job.

Been out two Saturdays this month, and tomorrow will be my third.  It has been so awful hot and dusty up there and the flies have been just miserable the first two trips, but I got a little action the first time out.  I was about halfway to my spot, (1/2 a mile from truck in heavy bush pretty high up), I stopped for a 1/2 hour to do some calling overlooking  a little clearing maybe 300 yards wide and 100 yards deep.  Not sure why, just looked like a good spot and I needed to rest.  I put my back against the hill, it was steep and my spot had a good view of the clearing as I called.  Second series of calls I heard a grunt behind me and I spun around to see a black bear looking at me 20 yards up the hill, (I was looking down), my spinning around  spooked him and he tore into the bush, never even got my rifle up to my shoulder.  Kind of gangly long legged looking bear, so not a trophy but not a cub. 

A good experience as it confirmed there is at least one bear in the area I am hunting them, (I have found a lot of chewed up trees and stumps, but they look older, not much scat), and whatever inept calling I was trying did get him interested.  My second trip I didn't see anything.

Ok if you are still reading now for the pointers I was hoping I could get some feedback on.

Calling tips
I have been using a primos fawn call through the entire season, but I have heard/read that it might be a better idea to use a fawn call in the early season when there are actually fawns, and a jack rabbit or elk call later in the season.  Though I am not sure about the elk call as we don't have elk in the area I hunt.  I also have an Alpha Dogg electronic call from Primos for coyote hunting in the off season, there are a lot of fawn calls and every other animal call for coyotes, I am wondering is this might work for a bear.

   - Any thoughts around best time of year to use different animal calls?  Fawn in early season/Jack rabbit in fall?
   - Anybody ever try an electronic call for bear, if so what sounds seem to work well?
   - Cadence, I call for 15, quiet for ten call for 15 etc.  Does this make any sense, just something i have been doing after watching some videos, but other videos say call for a half hour at least.


Location and time of year
I am sure this is a matter of opinion, but hunting on public land there are always a couple of other trucks around.  One of the reasons I go to my valley is that it is tough to get into, I have never seen another hunter heading that far back off of the road, but both trips out this year I have seen trucks parked by the trail that goes down to the river.  This has me thinking that early season, (I found my spot late summer last year so I never started going up high until mid-september), people seem to be hunting the bears down by the river, not sure if this is low country hunting or hunting the river specifically.  I have never seen any bears in the low country, but it has me wondering with the fish activity in the late summer early fall, or possibly the heat, are the bears down there.

    - Any thoughts about hunting the rivers or low country in the heat of summer or when there is spawning going on?  Seems obvious, but I have never seen anything down low and it gets crowded with other hunters so I would like to avoid it if I can.
    -  All of the sign seems old where I am hunting (up high), ripped stumps and scratched up trees, and not much scat.  It really seems to be telling me that the bears are not in the area this time of year, but I saw one two weeks ago up high and coming down to me, and I saw a few bears in my late fall trips in the area last year.  From what I understand bears are pretty territorial, i.e. they don't go miles from their haunts to get into the low county at a certain times of the year.  Am I on the wrong track here?
   -  Really I am wondering if I should join the crowd around the river this time of year or keep hoofing up my mountain, could be guys are down there because it is such a easy hike down the hill

Learning a little form someone with more experience 
Maybe it is just me as I usually hunt alone as I can make less noise and it is easier to plan, but it sure would be nice to tag along with someone who knows what they are doing.  If anybody is up for a trip in the Whatcom county area let me know if you want to head out together.  I would gladly drive, buy gas and shoot second to be able to learn a little from some guys that have more experience with these north west bears.  Anyway PM me if you are up for it.

[furiouzgeorge]

Great questions! I look forward to the responses as I'm curious about some of the same stuff.

[shorthair15]

hopefully bearman ric or saylean will chime in. they do alot of calling for bears and are very good callers.  hopefully they chime in soon to answer your questions .good luck with the calling .i do alot of bear callling but i dont consider my self a expert. if you want some good bear calls contact bear man ric i have 4 of his calls they work good. more then a few members on this website have calls from bear man ric. check his website or give him a call.

[grizzlyadams]

    - Any thoughts about hunting the rivers or low country in the heat of summer or when there is spawning going on? 

Stay away from the fish and skunk cabbage eating bears down low. Stick with the high country berry eating bears. The meat is 100 times better. At least to me....

[BOWHUNTER45]

Good area ...lots of bear !

[saylean]

First off, check out callingbears.com.

Now for your questions, and take it with a grain of salt, as I am no expert and bears teach me things everytime I go out.

1. Calling tips: Time of year, what call?
Well, whats going on in the woods that time of year? In the spring, calves and fawns are being born....try that and see what responds. If you do several sets without results, switch it up with something new, like jack rabbit, or even coyote pup distress. In the fall, try an older sounding distress, like a deer is caught by yotes, or make just generally hurt....
Also, always remember, just because you dont see anything ( or even hear it) doesnt mean something didnt respond.
Last time I went out, I called in a yote and bear, both of which crossed the road 75 yards behind me to the left...only reason I knew I called them in was their tracks and scat in my footprints.

Electric calls:
I have used them, never had much luck...I am definelty more of a hand caller.

Cadence:

Very often, bears will only move in, WHILE you are calling. You stop calling, they pause, you start up, they start walking....I have noticed this several times and it has been confirmed by several veteran bear hunters. I have had 4 bears that I know of, stalking to under 40 yards, some as close as 15 yards, do this very behavior...3 of the 4 I never saw, but my brother was watching them come in on me. Bears can take an hour or more to come in. If I dont get much action after 45 or 55 min...I usually stop and just sit quietly for another 15 min or so...sometimes things come in after the ruckous has stopped.

Location/time of year: FIND FOOD SOURCES, FIND BEARS. Number 1 rule. If it is hot out, check creek bottoms, brushy cool draws etc. I prefer not to even hunt when it is hot out...but rather wait till dusk when bears come out to feed. Around here, for me, mid to late sept is the golden hour for bears and berries. Dont get discouraged by others in the area, just keep plugging away and find some spots by using your legs.
Also, one of my honey holes, hunters blow by all the time....on their way up to the hills...they never stop to consider, hey, all this brush and trees and water and cover is a perfect spot! Look for spots that have food, cover, water and little pressure and you should be good.

Bears will travel where they need to, to get food. However, you could find them in the same areas year after year, if they find a nice berry patch they like to frequent. We all have our fav restaurants right?

Best of luck....read up on the bear forum posts, stories, how to's, etc...get out and hunt, make mistakes and learn that bears can melt away into the brush as quick as a deer. They are an awesome animal.

[CAMPMEAT]

The call sound I have had the best luck with was a cub bawling. I just call and call and call more until I turn blue in the face. Then I call more. The few bears I've called in were in mid morning 9 ish to noon. But then I go home because I already called one in. I've used RRcalls, Primos Little Dawg and Randy Andersons, Tweety. I've had good luck with all 3.

[WA hunter14]

how important is scent and cammo when calling bears? i went out twice a few weeks ago(when i was calling there it was very hot like 90s) in a area where i have found fresh scat for years and found it again this trip(first time i have hunted it though,normally i hunt less promising areas), tons of clawed up trees a dead moose tracks in the mud. but i make six stands and did a few amount of glassing and no bears? this has happened to me the past few years, i go out alot every year waste tons of gas and time and never see a bear? i use premos lil dog hand call and a foxpro on fawn distress, coyote pup, snowshoe, jackrabbit,(i try not to use the e caller too much because i feel its too quite) pretty much everything, i wear camo pants and jacket camo hat(i do not wear cammo over my face like i do when i coyote hunt). but i havent been watching the wind much untill recently, i call in areas where you can see between 40and 75 yards. i dont wear scent killer. can anyone tell me what im doing wrong? is it just the scent thing? if so what do i do to best control scent?

[rebal69972]

Taged

[billythekidrock]

I used a Burnham Bros C-3 Long Range call for many years and more than half the bears I have called have come to that call. But I found that I could buy 3 of the same calls and each would sound different. If the sound is not right then I am not confident. Now I am buying new reeds for those calls as well as making my own calls with the sound that I want. Don't get me wrong, I think that bears will come in to any distress sound, but I have a sound and style I am confident with. Being confident is key when calling any animal. If you are not confident with the situation you will be less likely to stick with it or be ready when necessary.

If cold calling, call for a minimum of one hour, two are better. If you can see the bear and it does not respond to the call, try to get closer and try again only harder and louder.

I start out with a low cottontail distress tone and cadence. I will call for 30-60 seconds and pause for 10-20 seconds to listen. I will repeat this sequence for about a half hour, rapidly bringing the volume up to a loud squall.

I feel the key is to sound as lost/scared/hurt as possible and then sound like an animal is being torn apart. Emotion is key. You need to convey the pain and distress that prey do when being attacked. My stands usually last one hour minimum and one time as long as 4 hours.

[CAMPMEAT]

I never have used camo or scent. Levis and hickory shirts is what is use........ ...

[Heetor]

Guys this is great stuff, exactly the kind of pointers/discussion I was hoping for

I went out this Saturday and headed up the mountain, tried two clearings on top with my Alpha Dogg E call.  Didn't have nay luck up there, it was really hot and I was drenched in sweat all afternoon/evening, then I headed down in the dark.  Didn't see any bear, but did have some coyotes come in at dusk.  There seemed to have been bear in the one spot during the week, there were two freshly ripped apart stumps that I don't think looked that way last saturday.  Some old scat, but nothing looked new or moist.

Worked the fawn in distress call for an hour, tried jack rabbit in distress for an hour, then tried rodent for an hour, in both spots.  The rodent brought a hawk and some crows in, and the fawn brought the coyotes in, but no bears. 

Interesting comment on cammo and scent control, I'm used to still hunting Turkey and Whitetail in the south, so we are pretty obsessive about scent control and cammo.  I have seen whitetails sniffing me down wind at over 100 yards before, and turkey spotting me and taking off at 50 when I was so still I was scared to blink, so I may be a little too paranoid for bear.  I use scent away every couple of hours form head to toe, red fox urine on my boot soles before moving around, cammo from head to toe including face net, (when I am sitting, I hate that face net).  Sounds like it may be a little overkill, but better safe than sorry when you are trying to figure out a new critter.

Anyway good pointers on this stuff, thinking about how tough the heat was on me I can only imagine the bears in their fur coats.  I think I am going to try a new spot for a few weeks to take some pressure of of the mountain top for a while, maybe until it cools down a little.   I have what might be a promising spot I scouted last year, but haven't been in there since, It is about half way up the mountain, back in the bush a 1/4 mile, off of an overgrown logging trail.  Very shady and cool, and there was a large stream running through a clearing, (or was int he fall when it was rainy), and some heavy thick bush off of the trail.  The clearing is about 70 yards wide so there should be some room to setup, not sure about food sources though, I wasn't looking for the right things when I was in there last year.

As far as experiences with the E call, not much to be learnt on one trip, but I didn't have any bear action on it, possibly I was keeping the volume a little low.  I cranked it right up to give it a try near the end of the afternoon, and thats when I had the birds and coyotes, not sure if it was from getting the call loud or because it was starting to get dark and they were more active.  I think you have to get it loud, but those things give you an awful headache when they are blaring `

Anyway I am off to the Peninsula for opening weekend of archery deer, then off to the Southern coast the next weekend for archery elk, so it is going to be a few weeks before I can get back to the business of this madness called bear hunting   I am thinking next trip out the focus will be on scouting for some cooler thick spots back in the bush instead of the older logged out clearings in the heat of the sun.  Having a bit of a better understanding of what to look for with respect to food sources will help, and I am going to play with both my jack rabbit and fawn mouth calls, as well as my E call, maybe I will try a set with the bear cub distress call, I didn't realize that bears could be cannibals

[jgoetz]

While I am new at this one thing I learned this weekend....  even if you can't find berries around the bears sure can.  I have been hunting the same general area all season and have not seen very many berries.  But all the scat I am finding is telling me a different stroy.

[Bofire]

Bear noses are supurb but they can't see for crap.  Calls work, electronic and mouth.
Bear tastes like what it eats.
Carl

[jrebel]

Need to follow and read when I have more time..Tagged

[WA hunter14]

can you call bears out into clear cuts or roads or will they stay along the edges?

[CAMPMEAT]

can you call bears out into clear cuts or roads or will they stay along the edges?

The ones I've called in have come from ravines and clearcuts onto the road to within 12-15 feet from me and 50 yards.

[JackOfAllTrades]

Observation is key. Even if you see a bear a 1000yds and know you can't get to him, WATCH him.
I watched a bear in the Pasayten a few weeks ago move up 1,000' of elevation eating grass in about 2 hours. Not a care in the world. Hot sun lit sparsely tree'd meadow. Watch for how often he brings his nose up to sniff the air or just take a seat and look, sniff, and listen.
Their vision does suck, but they will look around once in a while. I prefer larger open spaces than just where I can see 75yds. I glass more than I call. I seldom cold call. I like a spot where sneeking in behind me is virtually impossible but also where the wind won't give me away. Become the bruiser Blacktail buck that sits on the point, with exits down straight, left or right. (the perfect place on the knob for him is to also be able to exit back/behind) But you don't want that when calling alone. Set up where nothing can sneek up on you. As was said, find the food. If you're finding berries in their scat, find the berries. Grass.. Same thing. I wish I had a wounded Grouse call! So often that I find feathers in bear scat is unreal! Remember too that bears feed at night. If you're seeing sign but no bears, find a bedding area and call closer to that.

Salmonberries are earlier than Blackberries, then Blueberries in the high country come in later. Cabbage, grasses, grubs, mushrooms, termites, bark, Cascara at recuring times of the feeding season. They are omnivores and as you will find one occasionally traveling the river bed for spawned salmon, you won't see blackies in the water snagging salmon on the way to the fish hatchery. Yote dens, areas with bunnies, and deer areas are great, but a rabbit in distress call isn't as effective in an area where you can't trip into a bunny hole.

You mentioned 'river', so I'll point out that there are elk on every fork of the Nooksack at given times of the year. Yes, occasionally on the north side of the north fork. So a calf call could still be effective in those area's at the right time.

Yes, the average hunter doesn't get more than a half mile from his truck! But, those that do that are frequenting an area beyond 'your valley', might know something you don't. Hunting bears in the river or low country to me is like hunting Blacktail in the bush. But there are some there.  You're away for archery deer. Will you return to 'your valley', hunt down by the river, or move up to find where the blueberry fields are flourishing in mid September, (where the better tasting and better coated bears are -just my oppinion..), where you can glass from ridge to ridge to 'spot, stalk, and can call them in once you've sighted them?

-Steve

[Heetor]

Thanks for the pointers Steve this helps a lot.  Opening weekend of blacktail was great, took two guys with me that had never got a deer before and both of them got does, pretty exciting weekend for them and I think they will be new members of the hunting fold.  I had a pretty nice 2 1/2 year old with a small 4x4 rack at 25 yards, he will be a beauty in 2 years.  Wasn't an opening weekend shooter, would have been at the end of the season.  Elk  on the coast this weekend, so I guess I have some decisions to make for bear the weekend after.

Good pointer on observation too, mistake I made last year a couple of times.  I was watching bear at 600 to 700 yards down in the valley, but I never tried calling to them to see how they would react.  I kind of assumed since I was new to the call I would have more of a chance of scaring them away then bringing them in, and with them only being 300 - 400 yards out of my rifle range I thought it was best to wait and see if I would get lucky and they would work their way towards me.  Kind of lost a couple of chances to get a little practice calling and watching some live bears react.

Heading to the valley next time out is a bit of a stumper for me, just not sure.  I have limited options as I have only had a little of over a summer to scout since I moved here, and really it took me half that time to find a good area to start with.  It comes down to a choice of three places.  A thick wooded area of maybe 50 acres off of the river, but it will probably have guys in it, a more remote hike in place with a large stream and heavy bush and cover (much cooler), but a relatively small clearing, or the valley again.

The valley is where I have consistently seen bear and there is a fair bit of older scat up there on the top.  The valley is really two massive clear cuts on either side of the ridge/plateau at the top of the mountain, so I can glass for a mile.  The other two spots I have not seen much scat in the summer, and frankly didn't know to look for any other signs. 

So a bit of a gamble, but I am leaning towards the valley, it is by far the highest elevation, not sure how old the scat is as it all seems to be dried out, wish I had found some fresh stuff to make this an easier decision.  Between my last two trips up there there were some freshly torn up stumps, and a couple of spots with older clawed and chewed trees about 3/4 of the way up the trail.  I haven't gotten into the valley itself yet, steep walls and piles of old logs and bush around the rim, so there may be good sign only a couple of hundred yards away. 

I also had a bear sneak up on me opening weekend when I was calling about 3/4 of the way up the mountain, near the older clawed trees, so there is at least one in the general area.  It all seems to point to their being bear in the general area, but I haven't found any berries, and no fresh scat on the ridge or plateau, but plenty of older stuff.  Sounds to me like I am in the right area, but not necessarily in the right spot or at the right time, knowing a little more about what to look for the next trip out might help get a little closer.

Maybe it is the blueberries, there were a lot more bears in there when I found the spot late in the fall, either because they were feeding more so I was seeing them at that time of year, or maybe the higher elevation blueberries were out.  My thought for my next trip out is to head to the spot with the stream and small clearing that I haven't been to since the summer, the one back in the bush, and take a hard look for berries and other sign that may be a little fresher.  If it doesn't look promising I can head out and start working my way up the mountain again and work the valley to see what I can find.  At least I can glass the area pretty well from the ridge, which is better than wondering what is in the bush outside of a 75 yard clearing.  I'm going to also scout a little wider to see if I can find berries or some fresher sign up there.

Might try a little spot and stalking if I can glass something out in the valley, I brought a harness in case I had to go into the valley to haul quarters out.  I could climb down and then have access to the entire clear cut, but I have been hesitant to go down in there as I will make a lot of noise getting in, and I would have to leave most of my gear up top.  It would probably be nice to have an up close look at the sign in the clearing instead of watching through binos from the ridge.



 

[Carl]

Tag.  Great discussion/tips.  Thanks to all.

I haven't hunted bear yet, but now I’m feeling like I MIGHT     have a clue when I do.   

Carl

[JackOfAllTrades]

Find the food. Bears are nomadic and will wander quite a bit. Grasses on north facing slopes are lucuios but grasses on south slopes are drying out, -even on the west side...  Blackberries are still holding strong on west or south facing slopes or unshaded flats. Find a big patch of them and you're sure to find trails and tunnels in them. There are spots of blueberries doing quite well right now. The 'flying bug' hatch is over, so time in the woods gets better the closer we get to some colder weather. Keep that bear call near the elk bugle. You never know what you might see while elk hunting.
 
-Steve

[h20hunter]

Here is an observation on berries from my last trip. I'm seeing a lot of the berries that are exposed and in big clumps beginning to end the cycle. Lots of ripe berries to feed on but what is there is ripe. However, I've seen a lot of small pockets that are a bit more concealed that are just now really coming on. We heard a bear last weekend in the timber and I believe it was out and feeding in these little pockets.

[Machias]

I have been lucky enough to call in 15 bears so far over the past decade or so.  One of my favorite calls for a long time was a javelina call....that's right a javelina call.  Last I checked WA doesn't have any of the ornery little guys running around in the woods.  So why was it effective, my opinion, for a couple of reasons, it was LOUD and RASPY.  I put lots of emotions into the calling, I called non-stop for at least an hour.  But I think one of the reasons it worked so well for me was I called a bear in the third time I used it so I had confidence in it.  I think that is important.  I like to put a watch out in front of me because believe me, calling non-stop for an hour seems alot longer.  I never try to call them out into the open, never had much luck doing that.  Three of the bears I have shot were less than 15 yards when called in.  I like electronic calls, if I can get the volume loud enough, usually I can really crank on a mouth call and end up going with them.  I really enjoy the calls bearmanric and Rainshadow make and those are my go to calls now.  Biggest thing is find fresh bear sign, get in some cover and call.  Keep at it, it does and will work.

[j_h_nimrod]

I am new to this state and forum but have a bit of experience otherwise.  Most of my experience is with coastal brownies and blackies but a lot of the experience carries over. I have never called for bear purposely so can weigh nothing on that.  Below are a few thoughts.

Camo-while not useless it is overrated for bears, I have stood within 15yds of both bear species and as long as the wind was right they never saw me. Usually when they do see you at close range and not smell you they will hang around to try and figure out what you are.

Smell-very important but not a lot you can do about it.  Your best bet is just being mindful of it. You can't "eliminate" your scent, it is impossible to do for an animal that smells in the parts per million levels. You can cover and partly mask your scent with something (red fox urine on the boots mentioned) but at best it is like a set of mediocre earplugs for your hearing, does something but not much. Down here where there are literally tens of thousands of people in the woods any given week I don't feel it is quite as important as up north where there may only be a handfull of humans in an area any given year. On Kuiu Island I saw a black bear go from unconcerned eating of a rotten salmon to instantaneous full flight at a slight wind change.  The other day in the eastern part of WA I had one try and briefly check me out amid swirling, back and forth winds on a logging road.

Time and Place-Mid day you might as well take a nap cause the bears are. Mornings are hit and miss. Evenings are by far the most productive. Try hunting shaded hillsides a bit earlier in the day and watch big timber with water in the heat of the day.

My .02 anyway.

[saylean]

well said JH Nimrod. Couldnt have said it better myself about the time of day....

[bearpaw]

We have shot bear most any hour of the day, but the first 3 hours of morning and the last hour of evening have been the most productive for us. The days are long during Aug-Sept bear season, if you need a nap or break, do it from noon to 5pm, during the heat of the day, that is definitely the least active time. Hunt food sources, if there is no food, there will be no bear. Practice shooting your gun and only shoot when you know you will put the bullet into the vitals. Try for the vitals and a shoulder and don't shoot too long of range for your gun or your shooting ability or all you will do is wound or scare bear away. I like catridges with good powder capacity, high velocity, quality bullets, and sighted dead on at 200 yards. Even with the magnums we rarely shoot past 250 yards as most hunters are not effective on bear past that range and it's probably too far for some. If you will be hunting in long range areas, practice at 200 yards whenever you get a chance before you go hunting. Take shooting sticks when you hunt or have a bipod on your gun. Clothing can be any color but tans, browns, and black, don't take any chances with those colors. Pay attention to the wind, I agree with the others that you cannot beat a bear's nose, you have to keep the wind in your favor. Be quiet, bear are super sensitive to noise and will simply stay out of sight if they hear anything that doesn't belong.

When you cannot find them, think like them, if I was a bear given all the current circumstances, where would I be?

 

[Heetor]

Yeah you weren't kidding Jackofalltrades, I wish I had read your post about keeping my bear call handy when I was elk hunting.  I left it at home, and I might have gotten a shot if I had it handy, (or if I had had a rifle with me). 

Elk hunting was long and grueling, but I got a nice cow, so it was well worth the work, (picture on the link below).

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,105137.0.html

Spending four days in the bush down in the bear river area I got to see a lot of bear and bear sign.  Saw one on Saturday afternoon when I was scouting for elk tracks, he was running into a hollow off of a nasty clear cut, I just saw his rear as he was tearing into the bush.  I tried wailing on an cow call for about 45 minutes, but he never came back out.

On Monday night we were setup cow calling on the edge of a swamp, and out walks a bear coming straight toward us.  He was at about 80 yards when I saw him, really nice bear.  I was hunkered down behind a big fallen tree trunk and the wind was right,  I nocked an arrow and thought I would have a shot if he came within 50 yards.  There was a lot of guys in the bush those days, and suddenly we could hear loud voices as someone was walking into the swamp laughing  and making a lot of noise.  The bear didn't spook but just kind of changed direction and walked back into the swamp farther up the tree line and disappeared.  Not in a hurry but a slow lumber, I wailed on the cow call for about 10 minutes but never saw him again.

Later that night after we walked out, (we left early because of the noisy hunters), I was putting my gear int he truck when about 100 yards up the road a smaller bear come squirting across the road into the trees on the opposite side of the road, and into a tunnel in the black berries.  I crept up and around the patch of berries but never saw him again.

Anyway I got a lot better picture of what good bear sign looks like over those four days.  We stomped through and around so many cuts that had black berry patches, and there was bear hair in the thorns, and piles of scat all around and in them.  Down in the swamps I saw a lot of older chewed up trees and rotten stumps, and even more scat. 

There was more sign in 100 yards of trail down there than I have seen in two years, kind of puts it in perspective.  I have been trying to setup on a couple of spots as they showed a few piles of scat and a few berries and stumps, but seeing how heavy the bear sign was down in this area I got a lot better picture of what to look for.  Though I have been off chasing deer and elk for the last two weekends so maybe the sign has improved up in the higher country where I have been bear hunting.

I negotiated a deal with my wife to let me have one more crack at bear river before I have to spend a weekend or two at home, seeing that much bear activity I have to give it another go, I sure wish it wasn't a 6 1/2 drive from my house to get there.  I am heading out after the kids go down tonight, and I should get there an hour or so before dawn to take another crack, then I am going to make the long drive home at dark, so I can technically say I was home by Sunday  

A lot of driving for a 1 day hunt, but I think I have to give that spot another try until I can get some better scouting in closer to home.

[Heetor]

Bearpaw you bring up a good point in talking about the rifles and ranges for bear, something I have put a lot of thought in specifically for bear.

I am a bit of a gun nut and spend the off season shooting at the range and working on hand loads most weekends.  I have a few choices of rifles to use for bear, and I have struggled a little with picking the best one for this job. 270 WSM for velocity and trajectory, (but is it too small), 338 WM for a much bigger bullet but pretty much the same velocity and trajectory, or 45-70 for plain old brute force but lousy velocity and trajectory?

Reading through the forum and talking to bear hunters it seems like some guys like lighter 270's, and some guys like heavier 300 magnums, kind of a different school of thought. 

I always take my 338 win mag for bear trying to get as much power as I can in a caliber that still groups well at a reasonable distance.  I choose a heavy caliber with a hot loaded lighter bullet for bear, 185 grain barnes TSX gives me just over 3000 FPS and it groups at a couple of inches at 200 yards.  My thought is a hard controlled expansion bullet moving fast with a flat trajectory seems ideal for bear, and with this round I think I could shoot 5 inch groups in the field at 300 yards, (off of my bi-pod), but I do worry a little about penetration/expansion, as the velocity would be down to about 2200 at that distance.

Anyway it would be good to hear some other guys thoughts on caliber and range for these heavy brutes...

[j_h_nimrod]

Guns - what you shoot the best in any of the  calibers you named, they all pack more than enough punch. Your 270 WSM with a quality, controlled expansion bullet would be more than enough.

You don't need more than a .30 unless you are going after big coastal brownies. These bears down here, as a rule, are not all that big. For the most part you are looking at an animal that is smaller than a nice, mature Buck so any deer cartridge is adequate. I have been in on about 15 successful bear hunts and I always explore the ballistic performance when I can. A.338 WM shooting 250gr Woodleigh Weldcores, 225gr Trophy Bonded Bearclaws, or 250gr Sierra Gamekings will pass through Both shoulders of a 8' 600+ pound brown bear. I have yet to find a bullet in a black but know a 30-06 shooting 200gr Sierras will pass clean through quartering end to end (inside front shoulder to rear off side ham). The only time I have personally heard of a bear running far or getting away was by simple bad shooting that a .458 Lott would not have fixed. I know of two nice bears weighing ~120 and ~250 taken by a 7mm-08 and a .260 Rem respectively.

My .02 again

[RadSav]

Wow!  Saylean and billythekidrock pretty much covered your questions.  Not really anything for me to add they haven't already covered.  Great advise.

In regards to guns and black bear I vary quite from the norm.  With smart bullet choices I think any cartridge good for deer and/or elk is fine for bear.  Just remember there are two ways to shoot a bear; Break them down or turn off the lights to the boiler room.  Both are effective but not all guns deliver performance to do both. 

My 257 Roberts has taken a lot of bear over the years.  And when I've missed my spot it has broken a few down reasonably well.  But, the velocity of that gun does not lend itself well to most bonded controlled expansion bullets.  Especially at any distance.

The 300 WM will break down any black bear on the planet.  But if one chooses a bullet of controlled and delayed expansion for that purpose it might not be the best bullet for taking out the lungs and heart.  There is not a lot of fat just behind the shoulder on the average bear.  The ribs are soft and thin.  And the chest cavity is not as wide as many think.  Because of this a heavy controlled expansion bullet is often just starting to work as it is leaving the other side of a bear.  Not very ideal for shutting the lights off.

So I believe you are best served by matching your bullet to your guns velocity and energy at the distances you'll probably encounter bear.  For me that's usually between 50 and 150 yards. So you won't see me shooting fall bear with core-lokts out of my 270WSM and you won't see me shooting 180 grn Accubonds out of my 308 Win.  Be sure to match your shot to the performance of that bullet and the limitations of your chosen round.

[Heetor]

I wouldn't say it was inevitable, but after all of this advice it sure became possible.  To all of those who responded thank you so much for the pointers and the detailed advice, I have taken all of it to heart, and funny enough almost none of it is contradictory.  Got this guy on Friday night, not the biggest picture on the site by a fair stretch, but I am definitely very happy with him     

I scouted the spot a few days before, when I was driving some old cuts and there were two fairly recent piles of scat on the approach leading to the cut.  I walked into the cut looking for sign and I could see there was a pretty wet gully with a berry patch on the far edge of the cut, right along the tree line.  I glassed it from the trail for a few minutes and it looked pretty good.  The patch was about 400 yards from the trail I was on which ran along a ridge on the top side of the cut, with the gully/tree line at the bottom, it was a very steep cut.  I didn't see any more sign on the trail, but that gully and berry patch on the tree line looked promising. 

I wrestled with climbing down the cut and checking the berry patch for sign, but I didn't want to make  a bunch of noise and leave scent, so I decided to risk an evening on it and come back and sit.  Probably a rookie mistake, but I cut my teeth on whitetail and if you make too much noise or scent they may not come back to an area for a long time, so I figured discretion was the better part of valor on this spot.

I didn't end up making it back over to the spot for a few days, but I walked in a couple of hours before dark on Friday with the plan of sitting on the spot and calling for the evening.  There were a couple of black stumps around the berry patch, so I glassed them for a few minutes to make sure, when one of the stumps turned its head at me.  There was already a bear in there, and he hadn't picked up on me coming in.  He was standing in some bushes about 10 yards from the tree line.  I was about 150 yards uphill from where I had planned to setup for the evening.

I crouched down and watched him for a few minutes, he looked big and my heart was starting to beat pretty hard.  I put my range finder on him and got a couple of readings between 367 and 370 yards.  I had to think pretty hard about that one for a while.  300 yards and I wouldn't have thought twice, 400 yards I have shot quite often over the summer at paper but my longest shot at an animal was a moose at 320, so this was pushing it.  I knew the tables for my round and knew I could make the shot, but had to be very careful, that is not a poke to be taken lightly.  I mulled over trying to stalk in on him to get it down to 200 yards, or trying to call to see if he would come in a little, but in the end decided to take it.

Since I wasn't setup yet I had to ditch my gear, dig the bi-pod out of my pack and get it attached, then get stretched out to take the shot prone, (I was up above him so I cold see through the grass lying down).  With a lot of adrenaline flowing I went painfully slow, but in my head I made about as much noise as a semi careening off a cliff, (especially the damn zippers and velcro), but he never paid me any attention.  I got setup and the scope dialed, and for painful seconds I couldn't find him, but then I saw his head move out from behind a thick patch.  I watched him for a good 2 minutes, (felt like a week), waiting for him to step out in the open, and when he finally did he was standing broad to me with is head down.  Wind was next to nothing and coming into my face, so I only had to deal with the drop.

I took a lot of time with the trigger, slow-slow-slow squeeze!  He immediately flopped forward onto a pile of rotting sticks and didn't move.  I watched him in the scope for a about a minute, and he was sprawled out and looked dead, surprised me a little.  I could make out the black patch without the glass so I sat-up to give him a few minutes before I started climbing down, man I felt good.  I am sure for some guys getting their bear is almost automatic each year, but I have put so many hours into this since I decided to get into bear hunting last fall, and I was struggling to trust it was over.

I started to stand up, not sure if he heard me or it was a fluke of timing, but just like I was being paranoid about he jumped up and ran down into the trees at the bottom of the gully.  I couldn't believe it, it didn't make any sense!  At that point he had been sprawled out for probably 1-2 minutes before I stood up, never had an animal sit stunned for that long and then jump up and run. 

I started creeping down the cut slow-slow-slow rifle up with my spidy senses on max.  I heard a loud wailing sort of noise come out of the bottom, then nothing.  I got to the tree line and looked down, and he was laying there about 40 yards from where I had shot him.  I guess he had enough left in the tank to make a break for the bottom, which surprised me, man those bears are tough.  Of course he shrunk a little without a 12X scope on him, but I was pretty happy with the way it unfolded.  Clean pass-through shot through the lungs, about 2" behind the shoulder, only meat loss was in the rib cage. 

Anyway thanks again guys, a lot of you put some real time and effort in with the pointers, and I appreciate it, I don't think I could have done this without the help.  I don't think I have room for another one in the freezer, but I think I will make it out to do a little practice calling before the big nap .

[Heetor]

With pic attached

[h20hunter]

Sweet. Nice job all tbe way around. Good shot placement...good hunt....pretty darn cool.

[Machias]

Awesome, congrats!!!!!

[crschralping]

Nice job dude!!!

[Doc Sauce]

Awesome post!  I've been trying to figure this stuff here (Kitsap/Mason counties) on my own and asking guys I know in the area these kinds of questions.  I should have just posted.

Side note... Where in Tennessee did you move from?  I came from Knoxville, my wife from Cookeville...

Thanks for the wisdom being shared here.  I apreciate it!

[RadSav]

Dang fine bear, shot, hunt and write-up Thank you for sharing it with us.

I wouldn't worry about the ground shrinkage.  I've been involved in a lot of bear kills and they still shrink on me the majority of the time.  I think it is the excitement of seeing bear that makes it happen.  Few other animals give a hunter that level of excitement.  The reason I like watching and hunting bear so much.

I'm very happy for you.  Congratulations!

[Machias]

Bear shrinkage.  I've seen alot of bears, up close and far away.  I pride myself as a pretty decent judge of bear size.  A few years ago while watching an elk wallow, I was sitting on a big log, leaned up against a fairly big tree.  I was bow hunting.  Heard a faint noise to my right and sloooowly turned my head to see a nice 250 pound chocolate bear walking up at 9 yards.  It walked up and stood directly in front of me on the log I was sitting on at maybe 9 or 10 yards.  It looked away and I drew and double lunged it, rolled around and let out a roar and came up running right at me.  Literally could have slapped it on the butt when it ran past me.  Piled up 35 or 40 yards away.  I walked up and I'm like WTH, where's my bear???  This bear was a 110 chocolate sow.  Serious ground shrinkage!!!  Nice pack out though!

[RadSav]

Bear shrinkage.  I've seen alot of bears, up close and far away.  I pride myself as a pretty decent judge of bear size.  A few years ago while watching an elk wallow, I was sitting on a big log, leaned up against a fairly big tree.  I was bow hunting.  Heard a faint noise to my right and sloooowly turned my head to see a nice 250 pound chocolate bear walking up at 9 yards.  It walked up and stood directly in front of me on the log I was sitting on at maybe 9 or 10 yards.  It looked away and I drew and double lunged it, rolled around and let out a roar and came up running right at me.  Literally could have slapped it on the butt when it ran past me.  Piled up 35 or 40 yards away.  I walked up and I'm like WTH, where's my bear???  This bear was a 110 chocolate sow.  Serious ground shrinkage!!!  Nice pack out though!

    At least you got the "Chocolate" part right

The wife and I took a break from bow hunting elk on a hot day.  Found a nice shady spot on the edge of a road right above a creek.  As we ate lunch we threw rocks down into the creek.  I caught some movement 200 yards directly across the creek on an old skid road..."Big Bear!"  I ran back to the truck and grabed the wifes 257 Bob.  She had not seen the bear so I took the shot on what I was thinking was a 300-350# grizzly colored bear with a big shoulder hump.  He dropped right in the middle of the road.  I held the cross hairs on him for about a minute and saw no movement at all.  As I dropped the gun to my waist I said, "How you like that off hand shooting?  "  At that exact moment the wife yells, "He's running!"  Sure enough he is full bore cruising down towards the creek.  I had one clear shot about 10 yards from the creek and put him down for good.  Thought we were going to drive right up to him and now we had a 250 yard back uphill 

He ended up still having a shoulder hump, still grizzly colored, still one of my favorite bear of all time, but only about 250 - 275#.

[BOWHUNTER45]

good job heetor  nice bear !

[Heetor]

Those are some classic ground shrinkage stories  

Almost identical story to what happened to a friend when we were on our annual moose hunting trip to Canada last year.  We were walking down a trail back in the bush when we saw a bear in the grass off to the side, about 200 yards.  He was a lumbering monster and he started walking across the trail calmly. 

My buddy took the shot, and the bear ran off into the bush, we waited a bit and went in to look for him.  We walked into a little clearing about 40 yards back, and there is this much smaller bear laying their dead.  I still get ribbed about this one from my friends, but the first thing out of my mouth was, "there must be another dead bear around here somewhere, that isn't the one you shot"  

Yeah right, of course we just happened to stumble across a bear that had died of natural causes 40 yards from where he had shot "the monster".  Anyway it was still a good bear, maybe 125 but he was a pepperoni and ham bear not a hanging on the wall bear...  There is a good lesson here on how much experience it takes to judge the size of a live bear, I would have sworn up and down that bear was 250 - 300 before we walked up on him.

Thanks for the comments guys, I was pretty happy with this little adventure.  Looking forward to firing up the Bradley to make some ham

[Machias]

 

"at least you got the chocolate part right"   

[bearpaw]

congrats on getting your bear, sweet... 

[JackOfAllTrades]

As Bill Engvall would say:
 
"Here's your sign."
 

  I heard a loud wailing sort of noise come out of the bottom, then nothing.

  Sometimes that can go on for minutes. It is blood curtling to me.
 
Heetor, you done well!   (Tell yer wife there are much closer places to hunt bear next season.)
 
-Steve

[deadwoodbuck]

 

[saylean]

Glad to see you connected!