2pt minimum

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Something that goes along the lines of increasing the blacktail deer population is food for the deer.  One thing that I've been noticing for probably the last 10 years or so is the clearcuts are usually void of any good feed.  They get sprayed with roundup and they are all brown and dead looking with little for the deer to eat.  I don't know how we could convince managers to not spray for weeds, but I would think that would do a lot to help...(besides eliminating the taking of does).

Now you're onto something Curly. I also suspect the spraying to have something to do with the hair slip. While it might not be a direct cause, the chemicals might be suppressing the deer's immune systems. If the spray is as harmless as they say, why do they post sprayed units to keep people out?

[Sitka_Blacktail]

You know what I've always wondered, how is spraying the clear cuts with chemicals more environmentally friendly compared to the old way of just burning them after they logged???

Too many people complained about air quality when they used to burn. So they turned to chemicals.

I personally miss the old burn days. There were a heck of a lot more deer then.

[Basket Rack]

 [/quote]If the spray is as harmless as they say, why do they post sprayed units to keep people out?
[/quote]

They are posted because it is the law and yes broadcast burning was basically shut down due to air quality complaints even though the state says we can still do it you never get approval to burn.  Even when broadcast burning was being done there was still plenty of herbicide use on young plantations. 

I think the predators have played a huge role in why our deer herds are so low.  It seems that once the hound hunting ban was voted in it corresponded with the drop in our deer numbers.  I still think that we need to eliminate most of the anterless harvest but I would like to see the  buck harvest lowered by eliminating the general late season.  Maybe make the late hunt permit only but this would be extremely unpopular with most hunters but then again so was making most westside elk units branch antler and the elimination of "Doe Day" and  looking back on those decisions they seem to have worked out well.

[abe1989]

the guys who are for this just need to hunt harder for the big ones. dont think the govt can legislate your probs away like the *censored*s. too much regulation already like has been said. set your own rules not everone elses.

[kodiak 907]

Ok, here's my final suggestion. Bring hound hunting back for jungle cats, ( Cougars do work on blacktail). Lock EVERY gate, however allow some kind of pass for handicapped folks. That would eliminate Poachers for the most part, also the lazy truck "hunters" would be weeded out of the woods, which then would increase the deer population. Therefor, The deserving outdoorsman would be rewarded with a higher deer population. even if you don't have the best set of legs, you don't have to go far behind a locked gate to get in the deer. PROBLEM SOLVED.

[boomstick]

The eastside of the state does control burn all the time its a matter of westside has to many people!!

[snowpack]

I kind of lean towards the guys that want to shoot a spike so they can put something in the freezer should have that choice and not have to pass them up so another guy can theoretically have more bucks to choose from to hang on a wall.

[lokidog]

It would be even sweeter if they eliminated doe tags and made it 3 point or better for all of Western WA!   

I hope the three point thing is a joke.    

I could see two point, but as Ripper pointed out, many twos are still only a year and a half old. 

A blanket three point would simply turn me into a poacher as I plan on feeding my family venison and 2/3 or more of the mature bucks on the island on which I live, are two points when they die of old age.   

[wildweeds]

Slightly late to this party but you fellas need a lesson in genetics,it's been proven in the whitetail world that a spike is inferior genetics,not button bucks but those pempernel crappers with 6 inch spikes,a decent genetic buck will be a little forked horn it's second year,you all have seen the kind,the one with 3/4 inch long forks at the end of  the 6 inch spikes.I happen to live in deer central up here,no one hunts for them seriously because of a firearm restriction and the fouled ground they live on due to industry,but just last thursday at 4 oclock in the afternoon I saw a dandy buck with growing antlers,he's going to be a 4 pointer for sure.Last year I had 2 4 points,a three point,two twin 2 points(that were real nice) and a pempernel 2 point and 3 spikes running around my place.This state has really stuck it to themselves with that 3 point minimum in eastern washington in my opinion.You shoot the good genetics dead before prime breeding season and then let all the inferior blood lay the meat to the does,Whats that get you,nice  really wide two points and lots of them.If you want to make a genetically superior population,you have multiple seasons,shoot spikes and 2 points only pre breeding and 4 point only post rut(december 15-30)Pick a tag early or late.

[huntnnw]

Ill call BS on the spike genetic stuff....Do not tell me that spike in 4-6 years is not going to be a shooter...whats inferior that it didnt grow to 180"? I can show you a whole bunch of whitetail bucks I have had the pleasure of whatching over the years that were forks or 3 pts that never grew over 140"

[boomstick]

You have control harvest. What we are missing is predator have gone up hunter numbers have gone up as well. And the deer and elk suffer.  If you want more deer or elk one of the predators have to slow down their harvest.

[boomstick]

One option for deer might be to pick east or west like elk.  It would thin out the people.

[blackveltbowhunter]

   Don't know where the other thread went  But here are some observations from reading both.

   1) The words "proven" and "science" should never be used in the same sentence when it comes to deer management. Science is a formula.... Or at least the evaluations of formulas. Deer managment is a cookbook....many recipes with alot of different ingredients. All of which will produce different results.

   2) Just because one "recipe" is different doesnt mean it wont work, but that individual may want different results than you.

  3)  We have to many predators

  4)  We have habitat issues

  5) A gmu aproach is much better than one size fits all.

  6) This isn't Western Oregon, and we are talking about BT. NOT elk, mule deer, or whitetails. ( Probably my biggest peeve reading through these threads. Are there similarities? Yes. Should we consider using some of them? Very possible? But to randomly compare the results is pointless IMO ).

  In my opinion and observation APR's work well to increase the age class of bucks in areas with low predator populations, when the herd is at or above carrying capacity. In this scenario protecting bucks until they are 3.5 or 4.5 will benefit the buck to doe ratio, (assuming an antlerless program is in effect to manage the population within habitat carrying capacity) should increase the overall deer population if below carrying capacity, and give hunters the opportunity to look at more "big" bucks that are experiencing their genetic potential. I would be in favor of a Sundance type APR in this situation 4 point minimum with eyegaurds. Or antler width/mass type restriction.

   I have a couple issues with using a 2 point APR in areas with a below carrying capacity herd/high predator volume scenario (insert skookumchuck and many 500 series gmus) First I dont think its going to save alot of bucks to begin with. Many 1.5 year old deer carry a fork on  a side. Second, while it may be saving a few, what are we saving them for? To get smacked by a cougar sometime in the next 11 months? It doesnt compute when the odds are already low for that deer to make it to the next season. Third, it puts additional pressure on the 2.5 year and older buck population. All your "testosterone", is more likely to get shot up. Lastly I feel like it is lazy. A halfa$$ solution to a much bigger problem. And keeps the Department from making the tough decisions. Like activily seeking to control predators and improve habitat, without making excuses. Or reducing the number of tags and thus taking the reduction in revenue.

[wildweeds]

Hows this for a management tactic,similar to south dakota and Arizona, you draw for a tag.........In south dakota the average is once every three years,in Arizona it's 4............ unless your a landowner of 160 acres or more in south dakota...........

[huntnnw]

too many people hunt deer and elk and thats it.... get out there and shoot a bear or some yotes! do your part