It's Washington rural v. Seattle urban

[Dave Workman]

Seattle urban v. Washington rural in wolf war
 
The Seattle Times is finally catching up on its wolf war coverage, but public reaction to Friday’s wolf update about plans to kill at least four of the predators is as interesting, if not moreso – and telling – than the story.
 
http://www.examiner.com/article/seattle-urban-v-washington-rural-wolf-war?cid=db_articles

[KyleMB123]

In the end Washington rural will win because the pro-wolf Seattle folks don't buy hunting licenses and don't lease land from the state.  It is only a matter of time.  Within three years I think we will have wolf hunting in Washington.  The quotas will probably be low, but the state will be selling wolf tags.

[CAMPMEAT]

I just love how people that don't even have a real clue can dictate what others can and can't do. These liberal whiners need to see what these wolves are doing in person. They need to see the maggots, dried blood, calves suffering without any hamstrings left and their insides hanging out, moaning in pain and being totaly helpless to defend themselves against any predator after the wolves have done their part. These SOB's are nothing more than maggots to society themselves !!!!!!!!!!! These wolf people types really piss me off, sitting in their offices telling everybody what to do. Sueing sportsmen/women and ranchers, tying up courts for their own issues and good. The WDFW needs to grow some very large testicles and tell them to mind their own business, not in a nice way either, and help the sportsmen/women and ranchers.

[BOWHUNTER45]

Your right but it will not take long to end up like Idaho or Montana ....Control them now and help keep them at managable levels .... Hopefully !!

[Elkaholic daWg]

 " Return of the Wolves" write up in Everett Herald today... Link Later.I'm on dial up and their site is SLOW. Saw it in printed edition

http://www.heraldnet.com/section/News

[SpringerFan]

I am on the Wetside but please don't lump me in with the liberal tree hugging, wolf loving type.

While I am a new hunter (going on 5 years) I belong on the other side. I have the luck to pheasant hunt in the Waitsburg / Dayton area and think that is a blessing.

Last year there were a few kids in an RV next to us who were boating over to the Palouse to deer hunt. They had no luck. Saw no deer. But did manage to see a black wolf every day.

This last weekend we stayed in Yakima and in  the spot next to us was a nice couple from Montana. They are big in to the Tea Party (go figure) and lived in Renton for a bit. Moved to Yakima. Retired to Montana in the Bitteroots.

They were awesome!!!! They have wolves, cougar and can you imagine, less deer and elk then years gone by. Haven't seen a moose in over 5 years.

We had some great chats about local politics here and in Montana. The thing that struck me was they talked about all the money coming from California to Montana buying up property, lobbying for wolves and just being, well, ignorant to their new surroundings.

Makes me sad to think that we are heading in the same direction with the Westside liberals having the control.

I so wish my wife and I could get out of here and over to where the people get it.

Please vote these dems out of office. This really sucks.

And a positive note, safe and happy hunting.

[CAMPMEAT]

I am on the Wetside but please don't lump me in with the liberal tree hugging, wolf loving type.

While I am a new hunter (going on 5 years) I belong on the other side. I have the luck to pheasant hunt in the Waitsburg / Dayton area and think that is a blessing.

Last year their were a few kids in an RV next to us who were boating over to the Palouse to deer hunt. They had no luck. Saw no deer. But did manage to see a black wolf every day.

This last weekend we stayed in Yakima and in  the spot next to us was a nice couple from Montana. They are big in to the Tea Party (go figure) and lived in Renton for a bit. Moved to Yakima. Retired to Montana in the Bitteroots.

They were awesome!!!! They have wolves, cougar and can you imagine, less deer and elk then years gone by. Haven't seen a moose in over 5 years.

We had some great chats about local politics here and in Montana. The thing that struck me was they talked about all the money coming from California to Montana buying up property, lobbying for wolves and just being, well, ignorant to their new surroundings.

Makes me sad to think that we are heading in the same direction with the Westside liberals having the control.

I so wish my wife and I could get out of here and over to where the people get it.

Please vote these dems out of office. This really sucks.

And a positive note, safe and happy hunting.

That's funny you mentioned a black wolf down there. I met a guy last week in St. Maries Idaho that has family in Pomeroy. He said he saw a black wolf a couple weeks ago near there.

[Elkaholic daWg]

 On a lighter note

http://www.backcountryrebels.com/showthread.php?t=24107

[CAMPMEAT]

Where did you find that ? That's funny stuff.

[bearpaw]

I am of the opinion that one way or another wolves will be managed in Washington. Just as in the other states, cattlemen and hunters are going to get tired of wolves destroying livestock and game herds and the WDFW will have to act just as they are acting now by managing the depredating wedge pack.

The wolf groups think they can control wolves so the WDFW may end up in court but once problems get bad enough, no matter what the courts say, the people will find a way to take care of the wolf problem one way or another.

Cattlemen are playing along hoping for responsible management, but when wolf groups get in the way of management, people are going to protect their livestock and livlihoods and what's left of the game herds. Wolves will not have a free-for-all forever like the wolf huggers have imagined.

[CedarPants]

I'm still giving the WDFW the benefit of the doubt and commend them for what they are trying to do in the Wedge, but I do find the 2012 Performance Agreement between the Fish and Wildlife Commission and Director Phil Anderson to be an interesting read.  I see no way around things eventually blowing up in their face at this point.

When you read down to the Priority Actions under Attachment B, it reads that goal #1 is to:  Conserve and protect native fish and wildlife .

Great goal!  Then just below that it lists priority #1 of goal #1.  I'll give you one guess as to what animal is listed.

Goal #2 is to:  provide sustainable fishing, hunting, and other wildlife related recreational and commercial experiences.

They are no longer required to provide sustainable fishing and hunting opportunity as a stand alone objective.  It has been lumped into the same category as "wolf watching", as I read it.  It's all classified as "wildlife related recreational experiences", and they have to make Todd the wolf photographer just as happy as Bob the hunter.

Which will never happen

[bearpaw]

The wolf picture for the article was on the front page for the newspaper in Port Angeles.
http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20120914/NEWS/309149980/weekend-born-to-be-wild-steppenwolf-music-live-wolf-to-benefit
I don't know how to just post the image so here's the link.

Can't imagine why so many people think they are all cute and cuddly.

(Joke) Maybe we should send over a few wedge wolves to lick their faces. 

(Erkel: did I say that)

[Humptulips]

I am of the opinion that one way or another wolves will be managed in Washington. Just as in the other states, cattlemen and hunters are going to get tired of wolves destroying livestock and game herds and the WDFW will have to act just as they are acting now by managing the depredating wedge pack.

The wolf groups think they can control wolves so the WDFW may end up in court but once problems get bad enough, no matter what the courts say, the people will find a way to take care of the wolf problem one way or another.

Cattlemen are playing along hoping for responsible management, but when wolf groups get in the way of management, people are going to protect their livestock and livlihoods and what's left of the game herds. Wolves will not have a free-for-all forever like the wolf huggers have imagined.

Sorry to say I'm pretty pessimistic. Do you think Wolves and any predators for that matter can be controlled without the support of WDFW? I think not!
Let's face it. This is the anti-hunter/ animal rights activist game plan.
More predators=less game=fewer hunters= less political clout for wildlife management.
Cougar cannot be controlled without hound hunting and wolves cannot be controlled without trapping. Sure we hear people say they will shoot everyone they see but that will not even stop the increase.
We cannot control wolves without a change in the law. Eventually they will be all over the state and the only thing to slow them down will be when there is no game left. How many will buy a license when hunting becomes an exercise in futility? Without many hunters WDFW will swing farther towards the AH/ARs.
Looks to me like a long downhill slide.

[bearpaw]

I somewhat agree and I wished the WDFW could really manage wolves because I think they could, but the wolf groups have a choke collar around their neck just as they did in ID/MT and everytime WDFW make a move the wolfers don't like they are going to pull on the choke collar. Have you noticed how cougar complaints have dropped off in the NE corner. A lot of locals have told me they are tired of calling and not getting meaningful help. They say they just take care of the problem. Even our legislators say that people have lost faith and are taking care of things themselves. It's sad to see but that's what people are being forced to do.

This is what happened in Idaho, stop in any town over there and talk wolves, for many people season never ends. I hate to see this happening to wildlife management, but tell me this, do people like the McIrvins have any other choice if the system fails them? Eventually people will react to survive!

[sled]

  I've heard in montana alot of people gut shoot them, and let them run off.  Hmmm....

[Humptulips]

I somewhat agree and I wished the WDFW could really manage wolves because I think they could, but the wolf groups have a choke collar around their neck just as they did in ID/MT and everytime WDFW make a move the wolfers don't like they are going to pull on the choke collar. Have you noticed how cougar complaints have dropped off in the NE corner. A lot of locals have told me they are tired of calling and not getting meaningful help. They say they just take care of the problem. Even our legislators say that people have lost faith and are taking care of things themselves. It's sad to see but that's what people are being forced to do.

This is what happened in Idaho, stop in any town over there and talk wolves, for many people season never ends. I hate to see this happening to wildlife management, but tell me this, do people like the McIrvins have any other choice if the system fails them? Eventually people will react to survive!

Yes, people will react to survive and what other choice do they have but will it be enough?
I don't think so.
I'm sure people in ID and MT have been shooting wolves when they get the chance plus wildlife services has removed quite a few and still they increase in number and proliferate.
Hell, even the opening of a legal hunt in MT didn't stem the increase. In ID where they went all out hunting and trapping I doubt if the total number of wolves will decrease, maybe stabilize.
In WA even if they go off the Endangered List that will only open them up to hunting. Not enough!
Same with cougar. We can hunt them all we want but without hounds not enough!
I've seen game dwindle away here on the Penninsula and the number of hunters with them ever since 655. It ain't going to get better with wolves in the mix.

Only way to turn it around is for the Legislature to overturn 655 and 713 and give WDFW a new direction. I don't see that happening.

[sebek556]

  well my friends it's been a fun ride, but I think the train will reach the station in the next few years. Talked to a warden today, and of course got on the topic of wolves. When she was expressing to me how great they were for the environment, I called Bs. When I asked her what she was going to do when she was out of a job because the game herds will no longer support hunting, she laughed and said oh they will still need us, we will always have jobs. That comment scared me the most, the brain washing has reached the lowest levels in the WDFW. They have them convinced that hunters can be removed and still have their job, only easier cause they won't be bother with the task of checking licenses anymore.

[kentrek]

imo there is too much money involved for the wolf pop to get crazy,anybody ever been on a yote hunt with a helicopter ? fish and game can control the wolfs population all the way down to zero if they please..look at the other states as a history lesson....wolfs came..game herds dropped...hunters left..then open wolf season..theres no reason to think it would be different in wa..

also if open wolf season doesnt help with pop control theres no reason to think that fish an game wont go to the next level...they need our money !

[RG]

WDFW is already stripped down to a skeleton crew of enfocement people due to the governor's and legislature's budget cuts.  They will continue to be cut because the politicians don't see it as all that important in the eyes of their constituents and in their reelection quests.  The politicians and citizens from wolf-affected areas unfortunately don't carry enough clout to influence the overall state level decisions.  Even as cut as they are, one warden on the road in region 4 for example, the philosophies of the agency still aren't changing in favor of the sportsmen and women who have always supported them and financed them.  WDFW and the commission seem to be like the bull walking around with their nose in the cow's behind.  I work with some of the enforcement people, to say they are discouraged would be an understatement.

[billythekidrock]

well my friends it's been a fun ride, but I think the train will reach the station in the next few years. Talked to a warden today, and of course got on the topic of wolves. When she was expressing to me how great they were for the environment, I called Bs. When I asked her what she was going to do when she was out of a job because the game herds will no longer support hunting, she laughed and said oh they will still need us, we will always have jobs. That comment scared me the most, the brain washing has reached the lowest levels in the WDFW. They have them convinced that hunters can be removed and still have their job, only easier cause they won't be bother with the task of checking licenses anymore.

I have been told the same thing in the past by enforcement...and they are right. They will always have jobs. There will always be poachers and game violations to investigate even if we can't legally hunt.

[Elkaholic daWg]

well my friends it's been a fun ride, but I think the train will reach the station in the next few years. Talked to a warden today, and of course got on the topic of wolves. When she was expressing to me how great they were for the environment, I called Bs. When I asked her what she was going to do when she was out of a job because the game herds will no longer support hunting, she laughed and said oh they will still need us, we will always have jobs. That comment scared me the most, the brain washing has reached the lowest levels in the WDFW. They have them convinced that hunters can be removed and still have their job, only easier cause they won't be bother with the task of checking licenses anymore.

I have been told the same thing in the past by enforcement...and they are right. They will always have jobs. There will always be poachers and game violations to investigate even if we can't legally hunt.

 Now I understand why they want every agency to have legal (not by the constitution) LEO, since when that happens their chances of catching their own bullet will magnify greatly.

[BOWHUNTER45]

I guarantee I will never stop hunting and thats a fact ..I best not even go no further with this ..

[bearpaw]

There are a lot of good comments here and I think most everyone is somewhat correct, put all these comments together and I think that is our situation.

I do think that as wolves move into other areas of the state and educate people about their real impacts that public opinion will begin to sway. We had some people in Stevens County that used to think wolves would be OK. Now that wolves are here and the impacts are being felt I don't hear anyone supporting them anymore. The ones that still do are being pretty quiet.

It won't be too many years and there will be wolves hitting the suberbs of pugetropolis looking for cats, dogs, or maybe a lone jogger. Once pugetropolis feels the real wolf impact, then things will change, hopefully there will be something left to salvage in the rest of the state.

One thing that would help change current policy is to elect candidates in November who will offer stronger support for hunting.

Rob McKenna   (supports gun ownership, sources tell me he will support hunters)
Reagan Dunn   (is a hunter, see Workman's writeup)
Mark Harmsworth   (gun owner I have spoken with that will support hunting, endorsed by sports groups, running against Dunshee)

I know there are others, maybe someone else can add to this?

[Killmore]

Bearpaw is correct about once the wolves show up on the westside that will start to change there minds. Once a pack shows up at tiger mountion(highway 18) that will get alot of attention. Have you seen how many people hike-ride bikes in that area...this will be very interesting

[boneaddict]

hopefully there will be something left to salvage in the rest of the state.

THis may be bleak but the only reason the wolves will show up in town is that the rest has already been destroyed.   Its too bad the majority doesn't have a clue.

[bearpaw]

hopefully there will be something left to salvage in the rest of the state.

THis may be bleak but the only reason the wolves will show up in town is that the rest has already been destroyed.   Its too bad the majority doesn't have a clue.

Unfortunately, you are exactly correct, hunger will drive them into town, they will be simply trying to survive.

In all honesty, I don't blame the wolves, I blame the people who want them where they don't fit into the modern ecosystems we have in most of Washington.

[boneaddict]

Curious to see what happens in the Valley this winter.   Apparantly the pack showed up back on the Golden doe or neighborhood already.   That is unseasonably early.   Of course at the same time I was in them at 7,000 feet 30 miles away     I assume they were looking for food.  I don't know

[Killmore]

So when a pack shows up at oak creek or for that matter any of the elk feed stations, will the game department take any action.

[boneaddict]

THere was one at Joe Watt/Robinson this spring along with a cougar.   The elk all bugged out and it was assumed it was overzealous shed hunters.

[bearpaw]

I'm pretty sure there is a provision in the Wolf Plan that if wolves impact herds by 25% (I think that was the number) they can take management action.

[RG]

I wonder if that includes the ones that starve because they keep getting chased away from the feed station or are afraid to go there because the wolves and hanging around.

[hughjorgan]

I wonder if that includes the ones that starve because they keep getting chased away from the feed station or are afraid to go there because the wolves and hanging around.

Doubt they will starve... Probably end up in the orchards around Yakima and hay fields in eburg...

[Killmore]

I wonder if that includes the ones that starve because they keep getting chased away from the feed station or are afraid to go there because the wolves and hanging around.

Doubt they will starve... Probably end up in the orchards around Yakima and hay fields in eburg...

Sure they would, there's a elk fence on the west side of kittitas valley that will keep them from coming down into the valley, that elk fence will be an asset to them wolves when cornering the elk.

[sebek556]

nope, wolf huggers will not included elk that starve due to wolves blocking them from winter feeding grounds, instead they will use this as a reason we need even more wolves running around because the poor elk are starving, and leave out the facts as usual.

[Humptulips]

I'm pretty sure there is a provision in the Wolf Plan that if wolves impact herds by 25% (I think that was the number) they can take management action.

So I'm just going to throw this out there and some might say BS but I think on the west side of the Penninsula cougar have decreased deer and elk by in the neighbor hood of 75% in the last 16 years.
So another 25%, that don't leave much to rebuild with.