Training a 3 year old Lab

[FALFire]

Hey all, I am getting a 3 year old Lab this Sunday. It apparently comes from a (?) hunting bloodline (?) but this dog has had zero training and basically has been left in the back yard with one other dog, both of which are family pets. Knowing just how different each and every dog is in behavior and drives, is it possible to train this lab to do any upland bird retrieval or am I looking at just having another house pet that eats everything in sight? He's a great looking Lab and I would love to give him some training, I have lots of areas that have fair to good bird populations around me.

Just curious and I realize, since not even having an opportunity yet to see if he has any desire to fetch it is nearly impossible to give any suggestions as to which direction would be advisable. But any help would greatly be appreciated. I also understand he may be gun shy, any way to break that?

[Huntbear]

Wow, I am sort of in the same position.. rescued a GWP, has never been worked or trained.  Knows his basic commands..  LOVES to fetch though..  so I have a base to work with.

Good luck on the lab.  His instincts should take over if they are there... 

Advise?  Get his basic commands down.  Sit, Heel, Stay, etc....  So he comes to listen to you... then start working on the bird stuff..  Slowly adding things in only when he has something down pat.  If he regresses at all, take him back a couple of steps and work him back up...  Consistency seems to be the key... that and lots of exercise. 

[The Weazle]

I was in the same situation with a GWP.  Dog was awesome naturally.  Not a lot of training was required, she would point, work about 25 yards away from me, always coming back, retrieved, everything, I thought I was the luckiest guy alive...then I used a dummy launcher one day.  No hint of being gun shy to that point...I fired it off, and she hauled ass, right back to the truck.  She went under the truck and wouldn't come out.  Now she still "hunts" but won't retrieve, and is gun shy as hell.  Can't break her of it.  Loving home, great dog, just can't do loud noises.  When the fireworks go off around the holidays, she is in my lap shaking, and she's a big dog, just scared of bang noises.

[windygorge]

I was in the same situation with a GWP.  Dog was awesome naturally.  Not a lot of training was required, she would point, work about 25 yards away from me, always coming back, retrieved, everything, I thought I was the luckiest guy alive...then I used a dummy launcher one day.  No hint of being gun shy to that point...I fired it off, and she hauled ass, right back to the truck.  She went under the truck and wouldn't come out.  Now she still "hunts" but won't retrieve, and is gun shy as hell.  Can't break her of it.  Loving home, great dog, just can't do loud noises.  When the fireworks go off around the holidays, she is in my lap shaking, and she's a big dog, just scared of bang noises.

   long long road or could be a dead end road, if they are scared of guns going off. 

[ghosthunter]

Hey all, I am getting a 3 year old Lab this Sunday. It apparently comes from a (?) hunting bloodline (?) but this dog has had zero training and basically has been left in the back yard with one other dog, both of which are family pets. Knowing just how different each and every dog is in behavior and drives, is it possible to train this lab to do any upland bird retrieval or am I looking at just having another house pet that eats everything in sight? He's a great looking Lab and I would love to give him some training, I have lots of areas that have fair to good bird populations around me.

Just curious and I realize, since not even having an opportunity yet to see if he has any desire to fetch it is nearly impossible to give any suggestions as to which direction would be advisable. But any help would greatly be appreciated. I also understand he may be gun shy, any way to break that?

Well you got nothing to loose. I am not a trainer and I have only trained one lab in my life from a pup. I am waitting for my 2nd to be born.
This is what I would do. If you have never trained a retreiver I would get a good book. I like Game Dog but others may not.
First week just let the dog relax and learn his new home. No training. Might see if he knows sit or stay but no training and no playing with him.
2nd week. See if he will bring a bumper back to you again no trainng just play little 25 ft. tosses. 2 or three. Quit before him.  If he likes it fine. But keep it short and happy in the start. Work on sit, stay, come 10minutes at a time. Couple times a day Do not over do it. You will have better sucess if you can kennel him so he cant have free  run around the yard. And try to keep the kids away until after training. If he has the drive he will look foreward to you taking him out and throwing a couple for him. Than let him have his free time.
Go slow and extend if he shows intrest and drive. NO GUNS. You have to get his trust before you mess with the guns.

If all is going well I would take him in a kennel box to the local shot gun range. Park your truck way away from the shooting so it is not real loud. Leave him in the box and mess round near by see what how he reacts. If he isnt having a fit than put him on a long check cord and take him out throw him some dummies one or two while the shooting is going on. Still away from the shooting maybe other side of the building. At no time should you try to comfort him about the shooting. Just ingnore it and throw a couple bumpers for him like you do at home.  Take a lawn chair and sit down in it away from the trap lines still and keep him on the cord let him venture out to the end of the cord to watch the trap flying and guys shooting. You are 100 ft or more from the action.
He may just sit by you chair and watch. Dont pet him just sit quiet and watch.
I said trap range not rifle range. They are different.
15 -20 minutes than pack it up and leave.  Come back again maybe a little longer. I would do it 2-3 times until he dosent care about the noise.
If he is retreiving streach them out but still go slow. You want him enjoying the retreiving. If that is the only play he gets he will go nuts to do it if the drive is there. You will know.

This is my 2 cents.  Good luck.

[Stilly bay]

get obedience down solid before you do anything else. it will help the bonding process and help him see you are his boss.

as for training there are many different ways to go about it, concentrate on keeping the dog in shooting range and casting, the rest will come easy for upland hunting.

the most important thing is not to rush anything, especially gunfire! 

If all is going well I would take him in a kennel box to the local shot gun range. Park your truck way away from the shooting so it is not real loud. Leave him in the box and mess round near by see what how he reacts. If he isnt having a fit than put him on a long check cord and take him out throw him some dummies one or two while the shooting is going on. Still away from the shooting maybe other side of the building. At no time should you try to comfort him about the shooting. Just ingnore it and throw a couple bumpers for him like you do at home.  Take a lawn chair and sit down in it away from the trap lines still and keep him on the cord let him venture out to the end of the cord to watch the trap flying and guys shooting. You are 100 ft or more from the action.
He may just sit by you chair and watch. Dont pet him just sit quiet and watch.
I said trap range not rifle range. They are different.
15 -20 minutes than pack it up and leave.  Come back again maybe a little longer. I would do it 2-3 times until he dosent care about the noise.
If he is retreiving streach them out but still go slow. You want him enjoying the retreiving. If that is the only play he gets he will go nuts to do it if the drive is there. You will know.

  I would strongly advise against the above. its a really bad idea, even for dogs that love gunfire. you want to introduce gun fire gradually and in controlled situation and environment. I don't care if the dog is three months or three years old, I want to take baby steps. clap your hands while feeding, then 2x4's, then introduce birds and then a distant cap gun. it sounds like overkill and being overly paranoid but I really want to get a feel for what a new dog can handle before I take him to the big leagues . gun shyness can be overcome but it takes dedication, patience, and faith ... why risk it? 

granted some dogs will show you right away they can handle loud noises, then its game on. others hold their cards a little closer.

if he does turn out to be gun shy, or if you turn him gun shy send me a PM. I have worked with several "hopeless cases" that now love the sound of gun, when before they would run for their life.

good luck!

[NW-GSP]

I highly agree with stilly bay. My dog would go nuts at a gun range. He gets jacked at the sound of a gun. I would introduce noise very slowly, make noise while the dog eats and work your way up to a kids toy cap gun and go from there

[FALFire]

Thanks everyone, please keep the suggestions coming, hopefully I'll have the dog tomorrow night.

I figured I would let him get comfortable around the ranch for a couple of weeks just to see what he is like and do some bonding. He has never been around any wildlife except raccoons, that he absolutely hates, so hoping that moving him out to the country he doesn't want to chase the deer or the cattle... or want to wander off. Lots for him to learn around here no doubt, it's going to be a completely different lifestyle than what he is accustom to. I'm looking forward to this, it would be nice if he is birdie, I'll work slowly at the gunfire thing I just need to get two things, either I will need kids with cap guns or perhaps I'll just purchase some next time I'm at WallyMart....cap guns......not kids 

This is going to interesting.

Stilly Bay....Thank you for the offer to PM you if I have a problem with the gun part.

Reminds me of a time many years ago, back in the 70's when I went chukar hunting with a neighbor. He was bragging up his dog, a great looking GSP, that was his best dog ever for bird hunting. The very first shot of the morning sent that dog high tailing it back to the truck and we never saw it again till we returned, it was hiding under the pickup and he had to drag it out to get her loaded up so we could leave. I felt sorry for the guy 

[Stilly bay]

. I felt sorry for the guy 

feel sorry for the dog. they aren't born gun shy.

[wildweeds]

yeah that for sure...................................... the breaking the dog to the gun at the trap club thing ruins plenty,the other thing that ruins plenty is to do nothing and then take the dog hunting with four buddies and have a blazer session of barrell burning when the dog is oblivious to the action taking place.

Don't particularly care for the shooting around the food bowl either,it works I guess but birds are what does the trick IMO.

Chickens fix gunshy....................

. I felt sorry for the guy 

feel sorry for the dog. they aren't born gun shy.

[Stilly bay]

Chickens fix gunshy....................

  boy do they ever! so do Guinea hens.  only problem is you wind up with chicken killer, but IMO thats a fair trade.

come to think of it, guinea hens can fix a number of dog problems.

[FALFire]

Chickens fix gunshy....................

  boy do they ever! so do Guinea hens.  only problem is you wind up with chicken killer, but IMO thats a fair trade.

come to think of it, guinea hens can fix a number of dog problems.

How do you mean?? I'm an idiot when it comes to training dogs 

[Stilly bay]

its one of many ways to work towards fixing gun shyness, and IMO its not something to just try by yourself because you read it on the internet.

basic idea is don't feed the dog for a couple days and then turn a chicken loose and let the dog go. while the chicken is screaming bloody murder and running around and flapping the dogs prey drive will be on overdrive. while all this is going on fire the cap pistol a few times and pretty soon the dog associates gunfire with the best time he has ever had in his life or at the very least it desensitizes him a bit.

it works, but there are also a lot of other methods that can work just as well without trading one problem for another. some dogs get really hard mouthed after the chicken treatment, or even try and eat birds instead of retrieving, but it can be a small price to pay for turning a dog around. it really depends on the dog.

[FALFire]

I see....

 The guy I'm getting the Lab from said the dog may be gun shy but in another statement he told me of a time the dog chased a raccoon up a tree. The owner retrieved his 22 rifle and shot at the raccoon several times and the dog never even flinched. Soooooooo    Perhaps he was so focused on the raccoon the dog could care less about the gunfire. 

[Stilly bay]

I see....

 The guy I'm getting the Lab from said the dog may be gun shy but in another statement he told me of a time the dog chased a raccoon up a tree. The owner retrieved his 22 rifle and shot at the raccoon several times and the dog never even flinched. Soooooooo    Perhaps he was so focused on the raccoon the dog could care less about the gunfire. 

many hunting dogs are scared to death of thunderstorms, fireworks and any other loud noise they don't understand - yet they love the sound of a gun just because ( through proper training and experience) it means they might get a bird in their mouth.

I also know of a couple dogs that overcame their gun shyness, but out of the field they are still extremely noise sensitive, to the point where the sound of a diesel engine gives them the shivers. blast a twelve gauge over their head while they are on point  and they don't even blink.

in the end it really all depends on the dog and how it was made to be gun shy. thats why its good to be very careful with new dogs that you don't know the background of. baby steps.
whom ever said dogs are just simple animals can go piss up a rope. they have brains and minds and think in their own way- and consequently can suffer mental scars just like humans can. its just that dogs can usually get over it with the right help, where a human has to spend thousands in therapy.

[Shannon]

Get some pigeons, plant them, and when the dog is chasing them fire off a .22 blank and work your way up to a 12 gauge slowly over several sessions. Not feeding your dog for several days and letting them chase chickens doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

[FALFire]

Well..... I'm not sure if I'll get the dog now. The owner was supposed to be heading over to Montana on a business trip and was going to drop the dog off on his way over, but he called yesterday and said he could not afford to go    So for now anyway's, it a waiting game and the way things are going, I will not be able to head west anytime soon to pick up the pup. Sounds as though he is having second thoughts about giving it away.

[huntingfool7]

For what it's worth, I would consider that a blessing in disguise.  Good dogs are not with us long enough as it is.

I would have serious reservations about starting off with a 3 year old that has had limited training, limited if any exposure to birds and is likely gun shy.  That's starting off with some pretty big hurdles.  If he hunts at all, you'd likely spend the next couple years getting him there and then you'd get maybe four good years in the field.

I've had hunting dogs that cost me from $50.00 to $1,000.00 The least expensive part of owning and working a dog is the purchase price. 

[FALFire]

Huntingfool, I agree, I know for a fact this dog never had any training and "may" only know the sit command. He has never had any bird training as he has been locked up in a small backyard all his life that is surrounded by a 6 foot cedar fence. I have very little confidence in this dog since he has lived in these conditions and will likely continue to do so. The newness wore off long ago for the family and now he just sits in a prison yard. Perhaps I'm more concerned about his welfare than anything. Unfortunately, the other dog they have is in the same boat, they never do anything with their dogs but feed them cheap dog food and allow them to play in all the dog crap all day long. Pretty sad for sure.

[huntingfool7]

Ah, pulls at the heart strings for sure.  Sometimes I have to remind myself that we can't save 'em all.

I feel a little compelled to mention the chicken cure.  I'm a guy that has had a dog crawl home with a belly full of lead for chicken killing.  It makes for strained neighborly relations on both sides.  Suffering losses from a livestock killer to cutting down the neighbors pet, there are no winners and lots of bad blood. 
Some cures are worse than the disease.

If you're thinking of a lab, a fresh upstart might be in the cards---???  I'm kind of a sucker for chocolate but they all worm their way in. 
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,104566.0.html

[Kola16]

Trust me. Blacks are the BEST!!!!!!   



I would NEVER get a 3 year old dog. My dog is three, and it feels like I have had her for a lifetime  (that's a good thing). You want every second that you can have with your dog 

[FALFire]

I spoke with the dogs current owner today, sounds like he will deliver the dog on Thursday. I am highly skeptical of this whole thing but my wife is looking forward to having him around and although he may turn out to be just another pet, I'm okay with that.

Actually, a bunch of years ago I got a Yellow Lab from another friend and he was about the same age 2 or 3 or so, turned out this guy was very birdie and somehow just worked out very well even though he never had any official training, his instincts powered through and he turned out to be a great hunter.  He's been gone now for 10 years and I sure miss him.

I picked up another Black Lab about 6 months later and he was a great pal but never showed any interest in hunting, I put him down last year suffering from cancer. So we'll see what happens, I've always wanted a good upland bird dog, hunted with some friends that had a great one years ago but could never really afford to pay for all the proper training and simply did not have the knowledge or time to do it myself.

[Huntbear]

Putting down one of my dogs has to rank right up there as the hardest thing I have ever done in my life....  I literally, held my St. Bernard as the vet injected him, to put him to sleep...  I buried my face in that big oafs fur and cried for 20 min. as I felt the life leave his body...  Even knowing that he would have never survived after having the stroke he had...


Only times I have cried harder... when I buried my dad, my sister and my mom....  over the years.

[FALFire]

Putting down one of my dogs has to rank right up there as the hardest thing I have ever done in my life....  I literally, held my St. Bernard as the vet injected him, to put him to sleep...  I buried my face in that big oafs fur and cried for 20 min. as I felt the life leave his body...  Even knowing that he would have never survived after having the stroke he had...


Only times I have cried harder... when I buried my dad, my sister and my mom....  over the years.

I hear ya Huntbear. I was holding each of my labs when they were put down, I cried for a good long while for each. Still today, I get teary eyed for them when I pray they are in a better place.

[FALFire]

Well.........Here he is.

His name is Hank
 

[ghosthunter]

"Trust me. Blacks are the BEST!!!!!!   "


Shhhhhh Dont get Stilly Bay started.


Nice Dog, my color

[Huntbear]

Good looking dog!!!

Just one question.. who names a dog Frank??   

[huntingfool7]

Looks like a big, happy guy. 

[FALFire]

Well, he is very strong, pulls me all over the place, trying to break him of that will be a chore in it's self.

I have yet had time to put together his kennel so I let him sleep in the garage, got up this morning and    OH MY GOD    I guess he didn't like being in there. So today I put his kennel together and hopefully it will be bomb proof!

[Curly]

Looks like a happy dog.  Congrats!

[huntingfool7]

For some reason, I've always liked dog destruction pictures.  I think it's a warped sickness   
Our weim was horrible that way.  Would strip the bed, chew things into almost unidentifiable matchsticks, clear the counters and rip open pillows.  All in 20 minutes. 
At least she never ate the sheetrock or ripped out the car interior like a friends pit.

Thankfully, she grew out of it.   

[wildweeds]

To stop the pulling use the "schwerts" on him,attach a carabiner to his d ring,attatch a checkcord to the d ring run the checkcord behind both frontlegs and take the loose end up through the carabiner,you now have a slipknot around the dogs chest that centers up over his withers,there is a nerve in the armpit area that is very sensitive to pressure................. that dog will not pull anymore.And his act of pulling will be enough to subdue himself.I've used this on tasmanian devil dogs that you could barely hold onto,with the schwerts you could control them with just a couple of fingers.

Well, he is very strong, pulls me all over the place, trying to break him of that will be a chore in it's self.

I have yet had time to put together his kennel so I let him sleep in the garage, got up this morning and    OH MY GOD    I guess he didn't like being in there. So today I put his kennel together and hopefully it will be bomb proof!