Garmin will corner the entire hunting GPS market within 5 Years

[pianoman9701]

The versatility and security of using a Garmin Rino with other Rino users in the woods has convinced me that any hunter switching to a new GPS has to seriously consider the Rino for his next purchase. I see no competition for its features, ESPECIALLY the ability to link with your fellow hunters immediately with the click of a button.

I think they'll corner the market in 5 years unless someone else like Magellan comes up with a similar system that works as well at a lower cost per unit. What do you guys think? Rino users? Anyone considering a switch to Rino. Chime in.

[bearpaw]

I think Garmin is already the leader in the market.

[pianoman9701]

I think Garmin is already the leader in the market.

I think they are, too. I just think that within 5 years, they'll effectively be the ONLY one in the market. The competitors are way too slow in catching onto this phenomenon.

[bobcat]

I think Garmin is already the leader in the market.

     None of the others are anywhere close to Garmin in popularity, at least among hunters. I don't know about other user groups.

I know I will be upgrading from my 60CSX, either when it dies or when I have some extra money, whichever come first.

[bobcat]

I think Garmin is already the leader in the market.

I think they are, too. I just think that within 5 years, they'll effectively be the ONLY one in the market. The competitors are way too slow in catching onto this phenomenon.

True. I often wonder how Magellan is still in business.

[bearpaw]

Our forum sponsor Double U Hunting Supply is a volume buyer, they have good deals and fast delivery on Garmin. We have bought several from them. They are based in Vancouver.

[Miles]

The versatility and security of using a Garmin Rino with other Rino users in the woods has convinced me that any hunter switching to a new GPS has to seriously consider the Rino for his next purchase. I see no competition for its features, ESPECIALLY the ability to link with your fellow hunters immediately with the click of a button.

I think they'll corner the market in 5 years unless someone else like Magellan comes up with a similar system that works as well at a lower cost per unit. What do you guys think? Rino users? Anyone considering a switch to Rino. Chime in.

The Rino has had these features for years.  The other brands/models are still on the shelves and selling.

[Special T]

How long ago did the rhinos start using standard CB/motorolla frequencies? model number..I have a 130 that i love but could neve get it to talk with other non Rhino cbs...

[pianoman9701]

I have no idea about the radio and when it started with regular CB transmission. I used mine last week with someone on a Motorolla.

[Bob33]

DeLorme still has a rather large following.

My concern about Garmin is that like companies in mature electronic industries they're going the way of bells and whistles, and failing to keep the basic features intact.

Neither of my 650 Rinos nor my 62s compare to the multiple 60x series GPSs I have owned and used extensively with respect to tracking sensitivity.  The 62 series added some great features but also left behind some basic funtionality like being able to search all waypoints in alphabetic sequence.  It's the same with phones: you can take 8MB pictures and twitter your friends but can't get a good cell signal outside of urban areas anymore.

[pianoman9701]

DeLorme still has a rather large following.

My concern about Garmin is that like companies in mature electronic industries they're going the way of bells and whistles, and failing to keep the basic features intact.

Neither of my 650 Rinos nor my 62s compare to the multiple 60x series GPSs I have owned and used extensively with respect to tracking sensitivity.  The 62 series added some great features but also left behind some basic funtionality like being able to search all waypoints in alphabetic sequence.  It's the same with phones: you can take 8MB pictures and twitter your friends but can't get a good cell signal outside of urban areas anymore.

I don't know, Bob. I have great radio range on my 655T, and the GPS locks up instantly under any condition or cover. Those are the essentials for me added to positioning of hunting partners, touch screen, 8MG camera, 8GB internal storage, large screen, 32 GB external storage - I love the bells and whistles in this unit and they don't detract a bit from the essentials.

[Bob33]

I understand, but when you've used the 60x series for tracking, you get spoiled.  The new models just don't compare because not enough users care.  I think you just confirmed that.

[pianoman9701]

I have no problems tracking. Maybe I'm not sure to what you're referring.

[Bob33]

I have no problems tracking. Maybe I'm not sure to what you're referring.

Two issues: (1) accuracy of tracks. I've recorded tracks since approximately 2000 with a variety of GPS models. They are all stored in a Garmin Mapsource / Basecamp file. When you look at a vast number of tracks recorded for a certain trail, you can see variation as each track has its unique set of points recorded.  The tracks tend to cluster together but you can see some outliers where tracks vary by 100s of feet or more. Typically these tracks were created on earlier models, but some were created by the most current models. I never see significant variation from the cluster with the 60x models. (2) Functionality. With the 60x series you can turn track recording on, and you can turn it off. On the newer models (62 and Rino) you can turn track recording on and off, but when the recording is off you cannot see the previously recorded current track.  The options are "record and display", "record and don't display", and "don't record and don't display". Something as simple as "don't record but display my previously recorded track" is missing.  Call Garmin and they'll tell you to "save" the current track each time you turn it off.  Sure - you can do that but it takes about five minutes each time and is not easy. Why don't they leave this basic functionality alone?

If you go to some of the hard core GPS user sites, this sentiment is pretty well accepted. If you don't believe it, go price a Garmin 60CSX. You'll find they're selling used for more than they sold new before they were discontinued.

Don't get me wrong: the Rinos and 62s, etc. are good models. They just don't compare to the 60x series with respect to certain functions.  If you've used them side by side for hundreds of hours, you would understand.

[pianoman9701]

Now i get you. One anomaly I noticed last week was that the Pacific Crest Trail and what was marked on my GPS was very different starting at a specific point up the trail. I'd attributed that to the 24K Birdseye Topo maps I bought from Garmin. I wonder if the tracking effects that at all. I haven't noticed any variation when I repeat a given track, however. They seem to follow exactly. I have not moved anything over from my old Delorme PN20. And that GPS was a real piece of crap. A lot of trouble locking up and I've solved that with the 655T.

[Bob33]

I think the other factor that Garmin and everyone else is competing against are smartphones. Nearly all the newer models have GPS functionality built it, and with all the new apps flooding the market you're seeing more and more users toss the dedicated GPS in a drawer and using their iPhone to navigate.  The issue I see with that is durability.  An iPhone (or Android or Windows or ....) is great, but not built to the same durable standards as the dedicated GPS models.

[pianoman9701]

I think the other factor that Garmin and everyone else is competing against are smartphones. Nearly all the newer models have GPS functionality built it, and with all the new apps flooding the market you're seeing more and more users toss the dedicated GPS in a drawer and using their iPhone to navigate.  The issue I see with that is durability.  An iPhone (or Android or Windows or ....) is great, but not built to the same durable standards as the dedicated GPS models.

Well, they don't use satellites. When you're out of cell range, the GPS stops working. We tried up in the woods with the newest, the 4S. Nothing.

[Bob33]

Mine does (have a GPS chip), and most of them do now.

Check out the satellite page images with this one, for example:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mictale.gpsessentials&hl=en

[pianoman9701]

Mine does (have a GPS chip), and most of them do now.

Check out the satellite page images with this one, for example:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mictale.gpsessentials&hl=en

Well, la-de-da, Mr Technology!  . That's cool. I didn't know it was available.

[Bob33]

I believe the iPhone has had a dedicated GPS chip since iPhone 3.  Here's some info on the iPhone 4 chip:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4971/apple-iphone-4s-review-att-verizon/9

GPS
 
The iPhone 4 previously used a BCM4750 single chip GPS receiver, and shared the 2.4 GHz WiFi antenna as shown many times in diagrams. We reported with the CDMA iPhone 4 that Qualcomm’s GPS inside MDM6600 was being used in place of some discrete solution, and showed a video demonstrating its improved GPS fix. I suspected at the time that the CDMA iPhone 4 might be using GLONASS from MDM6600 (in fact, the MDM6600 amss actually flashed onto the CDMA iPhone 4 includes many GLONASS references), but never was able to concretely confirm it was actually being used.
 
MDM6610 inside the 4S inherits the same Qualcomm GNSS (Global Navigation Satellite System) Gen8 support, namely GPS and its Russian equivalent, GLONASS. The two can be used in conjunction at the same time and deliver a more reliable 3D fix onboad MDM6610, which is what the 4S does indeed appear to be using. GPS and GLONASS are functionally very similar, and combined support for GPS and GLONASS at the same time is something most modern receivers do now. There are even receivers which support the EU’s standard, Galileo, though it isn’t completed yet. This time around, Apple is being direct about its inclusion of GLONASS. The GPS inside MDM6610 fully supports standalone mode, and assisted mode from UMTS, GSM, OMA, and gpsOneXTRA.

[bobcat]

My new iPhone uses satellites. I love having the aerial photos, that is something my Garmin doesn't have.

[Special T]

I have a couple of friends that are hunting out in the middle of nowhere MT that have cell service and use thier phones to text each other while hunting. 

[pianoman9701]

I believe the iPhone has had a dedicated GPS chip since iPhone 3.  Here's some info on the iPhone 4 chip:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4971/apple-iphone-4s-review-att-verizon/9

GPS
 
The iPhone 4 previously used a BCM4750 single chip GPS receiver, and shared the 2.4 GHz WiFi antenna as shown many times in diagrams. We reported with the CDMA iPhone 4 that Qualcomm’s GPS inside MDM6600 was being used in place of some discrete solution, and showed a video demonstrating its improved GPS fix. I suspected at the time that the CDMA iPhone 4 might be using GLONASS from MDM6600 (in fact, the MDM6600 amss actually flashed onto the CDMA iPhone 4 includes many GLONASS references), but never was able to concretely confirm it was actually being used.
 
MDM6610 inside the 4S inherits the same Qualcomm GNSS (Global Navigation Satellite System) Gen8 support, namely GPS and its Russian equivalent, GLONASS. The two can be used in conjunction at the same time and deliver a more reliable 3D fix onboad MDM6610, which is what the 4S does indeed appear to be using. GPS and GLONASS are functionally very similar, and combined support for GPS and GLONASS at the same time is something most modern receivers do now. There are even receivers which support the EU’s standard, Galileo, though it isn’t completed yet. This time around, Apple is being direct about its inclusion of GLONASS. The GPS inside MDM6610 fully supports standalone mode, and assisted mode from UMTS, GSM, OMA, and gpsOneXTRA.

This is interesting because I couldn't get my sportsman regs app to work in the field. I just assumed that there was no satellite link. Thanks for the info. Maybe I'll just sell my 655T after all. NOT! I like it.

[pianoman9701]

My new iPhone uses satellites. I love having the aerial photos, that is something my Garmin doesn't have.

Mine has the aerial photos and sat photos, but you have to subscribe - $30/yr

[Bob33]

I like all my Garmins include the Rinos. I just some things about some of them better. They are the industry leader and have been for quite a while.

[bobcat]

My new iPhone uses satellites. I love having the aerial photos, that is something my Garmin doesn't have.

Mine has the aerial photos and sat photos, but you have to subscribe - $30/yr

I don't subscribe to anything.   

[pianoman9701]

I like all my Garmins include the Rinos. I just some things about some of them better. They are the industry leader and have been for quite a while.

Oh no you di'int! You go and diss my toy for multiple posts and then try and play nice? I got your number, Bob!

[Bob33]

I like all my Garmins include the Rinos. I just some things about some of them better. They are the industry leader and have been for quite a while.

Oh no you di'int! You go and diss my toy for multiple posts and then try and play nice? I got your number, Bob!

I never said I hated my newer Garmins. I just said I like the older ones better for certain functions like tracking.

[wraithen]

I used my rino for a field escape/evade exercise weds night and into thursday morning. The only issue I had was I wish there was a feature to help find which map you need to use when going mgrs. I plugged in the new coordinates and instead of 3 miles north it said 30 miles south. Common sense told me I screwed up somehow but couldn't figure out which map to tell the unit to go to. Other than that it was flawless, even under triple canopy, even when I didn't believe it because my map was a teeny tiny wee bit off. (The blue dot we were looking for wasn't the spot we needed to be in. It was only 50 meters off though.)

[Bob33]

This is a pretty good forum for GPS:

http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showforum=11

[Bob33]

This is the best way to show what I am referring to with respect to tracking accuracy.  The following image shows a series of tracks recorded on a trail over an eight year period.  The various blue lines were created using lots of different Garmin 60x series GPS models.  The red line was recently created with a Garmin Rino. 

[smg id=11682]

[Wanttohuntmore]

Are you using Birdseye satellite imagery on your garmins?  Is it easy to load?  I bought the Pn40 last year, and sat images take awhile to load, but turned out pretty cool.  I do however trust the garmins more after a few issues w the Delorme.

[wraithen]

Bob, what's the scale there? I don't look at my past travels for the most part yet but I know with boots on ground it was within 6 inches or so on the display.

[Bob33]

The deviation in that image of the Rino track from the trail is approximately 100 feet.

[wraithen]

Call garmin, email that snapshot and get a new rino?

[Bob33]

I have two already.

[bassquatch]

The only issue I have had using a smart phone in the woods is that once the gps is turned on it drinks the power and you can't just throw new batteries in them like you can with a gps.