Questions...

[Wild Bill]

Wanna pick some brains.
First off, im not new to rifles. No expert, but not new.

I have a 30-06 mauser, and a 300WSM winchester M70 that hate me.

Both guns seem to hold respectable groups at 50 and 100 yards. Around 2in, and often times better. As soon as i hit 200, the 06 seems to only be capable of 4in groups, and the 300 is about 6-8in groups. Ive tried 3 different brands of factory ammo in the 300.

The 06 kicks like a mule, and the 300 resembles my wifes 270. 

The 300 will hold consistently north and south, but gives me hell east and west.

These are the only two guns I have that give me issues, and i'd like to shoot the 300 more, but am not confident it will replace my current go to guns.

I know many will say flinching, but I feel pretty confident thats not the case. I have other magnums that give me no issues.

I can shoot well enough, and all my other guns hold very nice groups at 200&300... Just these two red headed step children...

I have tried double checking every screw/nut/allen heads for tightness.

On A side note, I prefer and enjoy shooting my bow more, but still have several guns, and pick up hunts for rifle once in a while. So, I shoot more than some, but not as much as many....

Thoughts???
WB

[wraithen]

I know I just responded to this but now I don't see it. When's the last time you did dime/washer drills?

[Huntbear]

I would start with bedding, and making sure the barrels stay free floated once they heat up.  IF they flex to one side or the other beyond the dimensions of the free float, it will contact the stock at some point and affect the shots.

From there, I would look at your ammo.  Since you did not specify brand, are you reloading?  All the 300 WSM rifles I have had experience with, shoot 1/2 MOA out to 4-500 yards with handloads and a capable shooter.

I would get one down and fixed, and shooting how you like it, then apply what you learned to the other one.   

[Wild Bill]

My knuckle seems to have posted twice.
Wraithen, I usually don't do any drills with my hunting rifles. Just hand guns and work guns. I just use the aim small miss small mind set.

I will have to check the bedding. Now that I think of it, one group jumped from right to left by several inches (3 ish).
No reloading. Never really have had time.

Another note, I am not proud to admit it, but I did let it get a little warm, and it snow balled from there. Not untouchable, but not cold to the touch.

Thanks,
WB

[norsepeak]

first thing I would do is get a good lead sled or something similar to help eliminate the shooter as a variable.  That will probably help your groups a lot.  Then I would adjust the triggers lighter.  Then check the obvious rifle related things if you are still having trouble.  Rings, bases, scope, bedding etc.  Then I would spend some serious time cleaning barrels.  Last thing I would look at would be the ammo, all factory ammo is loaded to SAMMI specs, I would check all of the above first, then play with ammo.

[JimmyHoffa]

Do you shoot at close ranges first when you practice?  Like shoot at 50 then move out to 100 then to 200 and so on?  Could be some shooter fatigue?

[arees]

I had a 300WSM M70 that was floated, bedded, had the action trued, the scope rings lapped and a trigger job.  It just wouldn't shoot well until it was hand loaded to maximum pressure.  Once I got all the signs I was pushing the limit of what was reasonable, the groups dropped to under a half inch (which is up against my limits so I don't know if the rifle was better).  Any less pressure and I was stuck with 2 inch plus groups at 100 yards.

This was after hand loading a range of bullets and a couple of powders.  I have never had that much difficulty getting an accurate load for a rifle.

I hunted with it and it certainly dropped the animals, but I was never happy with the loads I was shooting.  I traded the thing to a friend and hopefully it will make him happier.

[Wild Bill]

first thing I would do is get a good lead sled or something similar to help eliminate the shooter as a variable.  That will probably help your groups a lot.  Then I would adjust the triggers lighter.  Then check the obvious rifle related things if you are still having trouble.  Rings, bases, scope, bedding etc.  Then I would spend some serious time cleaning barrels.  Last thing I would look at would be the ammo, all factory ammo is loaded to SAMMI specs, I would check all of the above first, then play with ammo.

I tried bipods and shot off a few vises. Still n resolve. Never thought about more than a average cleaning. I'll hafta buy some good stuff. 

Do you shoot at close ranges first when you practice?  Like shoot at 50 then move out to 100 then to 200 and so on?  Could be some shooter fatigue?

Yes, but usually only as a quck one or two shot to check for groups and ensure im on paper. Usually all is good until 200.


I'm gonna tear her down, scrub her up, and try again. Figure i'll shoot less than 1 round a min, and see if the barrel temp is part of the problem....

On anothoer note, anyone want a 300WSM?

Thanks fellas.  Like bows, i can shoot, but im not a real good gun surgeon.

WB

[Wild Bill]

Took all the advice to heart.
Tore her down, scrubbed her, rebuilt her.
Bought a vice.
All in all, this gun hates me.
We did go from 8-10 down to about 4in at 200 after some playing. I would shoot something with it, but still not nearly a tack driver like some of my others.

Funniest damn thing. When she is cold, she's left. If i follow a cold shot with another quick one, she's close to dead on. If I shoot her warm, she all over the map....
If I clean her, the first round is left, if it has at least one round through her, she shoots better groups....

LOL..... Not gonna lie... This gun is shaking my confidence a little.... Think i'll shelve her, and use her as trading stock latter.

On another note, the troublesome 30-06 was warped all to hell (wood stock). She wore the bluing off the barrel almost full length on the right, and half way on the left. Needless to say I have a bit of work to do on her. I have faith in her though. It was grandpa's rifle. He seemed to never miss. Cant let that one win, G-pa would be pissed
Thanks all for the help.
WB

[huntnphool]

Sounds more like a load problem, I'd try a different weight of ammo.

[Kc_Kracker]

great info Huntbear!! although i dont know the WSM, i do have a straight 300 mag, and it will group 1/2" all day on cheap a$$ ammo, SO LONG AS I let it cool, if i let it get hot at the rqange it will surely start to spread out. When I am sighting in, I tend to pick a spot and take my time in between shots because I will never take a hot shot in the field, so why sight in that way,  also I noticed dropping JUST from 180 to 160 grain helped a ton with grouping nice n tight at 200-300 yards   

edit: just read the last reply, have you tried a different stock? have a gunsmith check it? maybe it got bent before you got it? 

[Wild Bill]

edit: just read the last reply, have you tried a different stock? have a gunsmith check it? maybe it got bent before you got it? 

I would, but hate how damn spendy that stuff is. To be honest the only reason I care at all is I hate owning a gun that i am unable to group. My wife hunts rifle deer, and I from time to time will pick up a out of state hunt, or take hers bear hunting. Otherwise, we take our trusty ol bows for most of everything.  I still have a few guns ive won over the years I havent even shot, so if the 300WSM wont get any better..... Oh well. I'll take the 7 milly or the trusty ol 270, and sell the *censored*.

Who knows.
WB

[rock]

4 inch groups at 200 yards? That plenty good enough accuracy for hunting i'd say?