264 grouping issues

[264winmag]

Well, I think the pre 64' featherweight model 70  264  might be needing to retire.  At the range today and could not get a group under 9" at 100 yards. It has never done that before. I checked all the scope mounts for tightness and everything else I could think of. May be it is just time to say "after 50 years and 30+ deer, you have done your best".   Kinda sad

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

Yeah the throat can get worn out in those after lots of shooting.  Great caliber, I have one my granddad gave me and I don't ever want to retire it!  Throw a new barrel on and keep on truckin!

[264winmag]

Yeah the throat can get worn out in those after lots of shooting.  Great caliber, I have one my granddad gave me and I don't ever want to retire it!  Throw a new barrel on and keep on truckin!

  Your right!  I should do that.  I figured the throat was bad.  And with plenty of new options for ammo that wasn't around a few years ago unless you paid hefty price for someone to load some, it's worth re-barreling.
  now i can get VLD's  and Nosler for it which excites me!

[Fishing Fool]

..Quick question, sir, have you ever cleaned the barrel with a good copper cleaner? I've seen quite a number of "shot out" barrels brought back to life with a serious scrubbing with a good copper cleaner. Just my 2 cents, FF

[Jim the Plumber]

Might give Rbro's rifles a call and see what he charges to bore scope the rifle.
Money well spent.

[264winmag]

..Quick question, sir, have you ever cleaned the barrel with a good copper cleaner? I've seen quite a number of "shot out" barrels brought back to life with a serious scrubbing with a good copper cleaner. Just my 2 cents, FF

NO,  I have not done that. What cleaner do you rec?

[pianoman9701]

Tetra.

[h20hunter]

Sweets.....

[Bob33]

"It had never done that before".

What were the groups previously? If they were reasonable groups such as something under 3", and they suddenly went to 9" then I would eliminate the barrel as the culprit.  A dirty barrel won't add 6" overnight to 100 yard groups.

It sounds to me as if the possibilities are (a) the shooter had a bad day and flinched, or (b) the scope has failed.

[264winmag]

"It had never done that before".

What were the groups previously? If they were reasonable groups such as something under 3", and they suddenly went to 9" then I would eliminate the barrel as the culprit.  A dirty barrel won't add 6" overnight to 100 yard groups.

It sounds to me as if the possibilities are (a) the shooter had a bad day and flinched, or (b) the scope has failed.

 I don't blame you for thinking that.  No flinching ever at range. I can hold crosshairs with in bull no movement what so ever!
 I was also thinking the same thing, this can't happen over night.
 Rifle has not been shot for 3 years. Prior to that it was grouping at 1.5" at 100yds   with the crappy winchester superX ammo.
 I also tried a different scope real quick with the same result.
 I hear ya! makes no sense.

[CAMPMEAT]

CLP

[264winmag]

No way am I flinching 6" high 3" left on shot, then 7"right and 6 " low on the next, then 5"high and 3" to right on next, then one in the BULL .    LOL    i'm stumped

[JackOfAllTrades]

"It had never done that before".

What were the groups previously? If they were reasonable groups such as something under 3", and they suddenly went to 9" then I would eliminate the barrel as the culprit.  A dirty barrel won't add 6" overnight to 100 yard groups.

It sounds to me as if the possibilities are (a) the shooter had a bad day and flinched, or (b) the scope has failed.

I agree.  Factory ammo? Hand loads?  Even a poor dirty barrel will shoot better as it is warmed up and will often still shoot well under 6".  Don't give up on that Winny just yet.  Clean with Sweets, but also examine your ammo. A shot out barrel will often still stabilize heavier/longer bullets. If you're shooting 90-110gn'rs, then bump up to some 135gn or so and see how she does. Let someone else shoot it too.
 
-Steve

[JackOfAllTrades]

No way am I flinching 6" high 3" left on shot, then 7"right and 6 " low on the next, then 5"high and 3" to right on next, then one in the BULL .    LOL    i'm stumped

If you're sure of that... Then think 'Scope' issue.
 
-Steve

[264winmag]

No way am I flinching 6" high 3" left on shot, then 7"right and 6 " low on the next, then 5"high and 3" to right on next, then one in the BULL .    LOL    i'm stumped

If you're sure of that... Then think 'Scope' issue.
 
-Steve

I am positive of that!  I never flinch!  I can tell you where the crosshairs were when the gun goes off!
  I immediatly mounted a different scope thinking the same thing.  same result.
 OK   this is embarassing but might be the problem!                I was shooting 140gr win SupX               that was probably 5 or more years old!              hmmmm 140 is the heaviest I can get for factory ammo

[JackOfAllTrades]

I shoot old ammo all the time without accuracy issues, but I do store my ammo correctly.   Since you changed scope, then change ammo something 'newer' after you've given the barrel a good cleaning. (I don't think a dirty barrel will do this bad, but it would be a good idea).   You weren't possibly shooting 6.5 Remington through it?  -Just a question..
I think you're going to have difficulty finding factory ammo heavier than 140gn.
 
-Steve
 

[Bob33]

There's something here that doesn't add up. You have a rifle that shoots well and has for 50 years: let's say 2" groups. You put it in the gun safe, take it out a year later, and now it shoots 9" groups with the same ammunition and scope that worked well for all that time?

[ckr]

My guess is there is a bedding issue or even more likely a cracked stock.  A friend had the same problem with a older ruger 7mm. One year it was great, the next he had 7in groups.  It took us a while to figure it out but we found a running crack on the inside of the stock.  We got a new one from Boyd's and bingo back to dead nuts

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

If you reload, find the correct COAL for your rifle.  Hornady makes a good tool to measure the bullet seating depth with a shell and find out where the bullet meets the lands.  I was having terrible
Accuracy with mine, I found that lengthening the cartridge tightened it up significantly.  Now under and 1" at 100.  I reload mine so they are just short enough to fit in the mag. 

[grousetracker]

theres only 2 things it can be, bad mounts or rings. the gun will not change just from storage, same scope,bullets. the stock is not going to fail with out abuse or swelling. how did you sight in the 2nd scope if the gun shoots all over? if your sure the scope is good check the mounts rings or have a buddy shoot to confirm gun issue.

[264winmag]

I don't reload unfortunately.     I didn't sight in the other scope. I gave it a quick bore sight the just shot a group of 3 aiming at the bull all 3 times. no need to adjust 2nd scope.  same awful group. even if the 2nd scope was off it would still group.           I will work on cleaning the copper out and go to range again.  will update tomorrow!   thanks for the input

[TwoSixFourWins]

Look on midwayusa, they have a lot (relative to what used to be available) of loaded ammo offerings. Might try the hunting shack 140 VLDs or something from nosler? You are obviously not shooting a ton if your box of cartridges is five years old, splurge a little and buy some good ammo.

[CAMPMEAT]

I had a problem like that a few years ago, shots all over the place. Found out it was the scope, sent it back because it had a lifetime warrenty, fixed the problem. 

[snowshoes22]

Have you checked the crown for dings.

[Three_Oh_Eight]

I live near you and have lots of M70 scope mounts and bases and the cleaners mentioned above.  If you want, I would be happy to have you over to tear the gun down, clean it down to metal, inspect the whole thing inside and out and then put it back together with a different set of mounts/rings.

[CAMPMEAT]

I just thought of something. We were shooting steel a couple months ago and a guy had the same type of problem, shooting all over the place. He gave it to my buddy who's a gunsmith. He took it apart and found that it had a lot of oil all over the barrel, action etc. He cleaned it up and it made a world of difference. Wasn't perfect, but helped out quite a bit. Just a thought. 

[thinkingman]

I had a problem like that a few years ago, shots all over the place. Found out it was the scope, sent it back because it had a lifetime warrenty, fixed the problem. 

That was going to be my guess too.
If it wears a gold ring and suddenly loses accuracy, that's the problem.

[CAMPMEAT]

I had a problem like that a few years ago, shots all over the place. Found out it was the scope, sent it back because it had a lifetime warrenty, fixed the problem. 

That was going to be my guess too.
If it wears a gold ring and suddenly loses accuracy, that's the problem.

My scope was a Burris, sent it in and had it back in 2 weeks. Of course those were the gold ol' days...

[coachcw]

maybe you can trade to the guy with the .257 Roberts ?

[Heredoggydoggy]

As I recall, the 264s were  notorious barrel-burners.  The bore might be copper-fouled, but if that doesn't work to your satisfaction, maybe it's just time to get the old beast a new barrel after so many years.