I have alot of deer around the house, so I experiment alot. I find that bucks are establishing dominance as soon as the velvet comes off. We usually rattle about 20 yards inside the timber. The bigger bucks 9 times out of 10 come in through the timber.If you have a ground blind so much the better. I start off slow & light.......many sets, then grunt 2 or 3 times then really work the rattle. Usually takes 4 or 5 sets to get a response for me. Doe bleats have worked for me but only during the rut. I also have the best luck with a rattle bag, I think because they are louder.