Worst Year Ever...Magnum Barrel Life?

[fishngamereaper]

I see myself as a serious gun nut. I know how many rounds generally it takes to wear out a rifle barrel and the symptons that arise.  My question for you more serious gun nuts, how long does the integrity of a rifle barrel last soley in conjuction with age.

The rifles barrels I have shot out in the past have been round count based and never age based. Well now Im faced with the dilema that my old hunting buddy is worn out. My go to rifle since I was 13 is a Ruger M77 7mag. It was used when my dad gave it to me and I have had it for over 25years. On average it may get 10-20 rounds a year through it. Last year I had no problems with it(one shot kills on deer and elk). This year it shot great right out of the safe. Well, so far this year I have missed two blackies, and its killing me. Having never missed an animal needless to say I have been beating myself up. Took the old girl to the range and she is all over the place. One or two rounds are in but the majority are thrown, like 8-10" in every direction. Ive cleaned the barrel several times and get one or two rounds in but then it starts dancing again.

Im going to throw another scope on it to check but the Nikon on it now is only 3 years old and has never been bounced or dropped. Im afraid that the 30 year old steel may have seen better days. Any opinions on barrel steel wearing because of age?

Oh and I mainly shot Accubonds, but Ive tried Federal and Remmington during this process and no change.

[Huntbear]

Check your stock... is it wood?  Did it dry out and crack?  has it been bedded real well?  How about screws? Loose?

Check your crown.  Is it rough?  got a tiny burr?  use a Q tip to check it.

[NW-GSP]

with a rifle with history like that I would put a new barrel on it and hunti with it for another 25 years

[FC]

A thousand years wouldn't change the way it shot so long as there was no rust and the stock fit well and was in good condition. 

Check the stock and use some good copper solvent/fouling remover on the barrel.

[Fl0und3rz]

At the risk of insulting your intelligece or experience, I would check scope condition and mounts and stock to action fit and fastening, before I suspected the barrel based merely on age. Next, I would suspect ammo consistency. Then there should be some measurement you can make to see if the barrel is truly finished.

Just saw you varied ammo, so that should rule that out.

[runningboard]

agree with huntbear, check stock bedding action screws etc & clean that bore really well before writing off the barrel

[fishngamereaper]

The scope is the last thing to check. Everything else has been checked and double checked. Its never been an MOA rifle, but its a magnum so I wouldnt expect it to be. It has a wood stock but its still solid. Because of my job Iam lucky enough to have alot of range time with scoped rifles including certifications for repairing Remmington, Winchester and HK weapons. The main thing Im not familiar with is longevity of the actual gun metal with age. Seems to me anything metal eventaully will wear out over time, regardless of use. So any wise old gunsmiths that want to add there       Thanks for the input so far.

[Fl0und3rz]

Be sure to let us know what you actually find out. It's an interesting question.

[Huntbear]

I am still thinking the crown has a burr in it.. or it is fouled really badly, with copper...  not sure what you use for cleaning, but get something stronger (more toxic so to speak)  A barrel does not go away that fast.  You would notice it getting worse over time...

[dewandgin]

I am still thinking the crown has a burr in it.. or it is fouled really badly, with copper...  not sure what you use for cleaning, but get something stronger (more toxic so to speak)  A barrel does not go away that fast.  You would notice it getting worse over time...

 

Have a M77 270 that was gave to me 34 yrs ago and it has at least 50 + rounds a year through it and it shots great still. One year it had in excess of 500 rounds through it. Lived in WYO and used it for coyotes and prairie dog and jack rabbits

[Three_Oh_Eight]

Gun metal shouldn't "go bad" within your lifetime unless you let it corrode.  There are still 1903 Springfields and 1898 Mausers shooting just fine to this day and they will probably last a long time. 

As far as throat erosion with a magnum, unless you're heating it up real hot and continuing to shoot it in a session, I don't think you'll see an appreciable loss of accuracy until you have at least 1500 rounds through it.  You might see throat erosion at as few as 200 rounds, but the barrel will still be plenty serviceable.  That is, unless you're shooting some of the uber-overbore stuff like the 257 Weatherby or the 22 Eargensplittenloudenboomer.

I'd be checking bedding of the action, barrel contact, crown, scope and scope rings.  You may play with a shim under the barrel up by the fore-end to see if some upward pressure on the barrel might help.  Check the crown for burrs.  A re-crown is usually pretty simple.  If you have another scope that you really trust, swap out and use the proven scope.  Scopes have more demons in them than just about anything in my experience.

[Three_Oh_Eight]

Oh yeah, clean it down to bare metal.  Get rid of ALL the copper fouling.  This will be tedious and it may require a bit of fouling afterward before it will shoot well.  But it never hurts to get it clean.

[6x6in6]

I have the exact same rifle and bought it new 30 years ago.  It probably has in the neighborhood of 700 rounds down the pipe, so a similar round count as you.  99.9% of the lead has been Partitions.
No issues with mine at all, ever.
I would agree with Huntbear and look for a possible bedding issue or copper fouling. 

[lokidog]

I had a semi-auto .308 that shot well, and then it didn't.  Turned out to be a loose crosshair or something goofy in the scope.  First couple of shots would be close and then just all over, but mostly in an upward string.

[Jim the Plumber]

Barrel metal doesn't fatigue for no apparent reason.
 Have a competent gunsmith look over the rifle/ scope.

[JohnVH]

but its a magnum so I wouldnt expect it to be.

Uhh, huh?


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[washelkhunter]

It takes 10,000 +/- rounds to wear a hunting rifle barrel out under normal use conditions.

[sirmissalot]

I had something somewhat similar happen to my rifle this year. I was worried it was the scope but turns out it was just a fowled barrel. I used sweets and it took a long time to get clean patches but it solved the problem for me. This rifle has mostly shot barnes though. Bummer you've missed two bucks!

[ICEMAN]

Copper fouling throwing the rounds... IMHO...

[JackOfAllTrades]

I've been shooting the same 03-A3 barrel for 30 years. My uncles and grandfather shot it since the war. While accuracy is better with hand loads, it still shoots near moa with factory ammo. I have a Ruger77 from the mid 70's that was a 300winmag, (with the original Varmint Trigger), and has been a 30-338 shooting 190gn slugs at more than 3100fps since 1991. It shoots near moa with thousands of rounds through the pipe. Age should not wear on a barrel. Barrel errosion is brought on by repetition and is seldom noticeable other than trend from beginning to end...   I would have a smith bore-scope your barrel looking for a fowling that you're not seeing. But like was said before.. rebarreling it, (as long as all other potentials are eliminated), if there is a flaw found in the barrel, would be a cost effective action.
 
-Steve

[thinkingman]

My first thought is copper fouling, but you say the first two score then it goes bad.....As in 'when the barrel heats up, it gets wild'.
That's a bedding/barrel pressure against the stock changing as it heats up issue.

[arees]

but its a magnum so I wouldnt expect it to be.

Uhh, huh?


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I have a 30+ year old 700 shooting 7mmMag that will shoot 1/4 inch groups.  Float it, bed it, handload and expect accuracy.  It certainly shot crappy groups until I floated and bedded it.

I just wish I was as consistent as it is.

I would worry about something messed up with your stock to barrel contact.

[JackOfAllTrades]

My first thought is copper fouling, but you say the first two score then it goes bad.....As in 'when the barrel heats up, it gets wild'.
That's a bedding/barrel pressure against the stock changing as it heats up issue.

After I wrote, I sort of thought the same thing, but in the OP he says he's missed two animals. I figure those are cold bore shots, (I won't address unknown environmental conditions or shooter ablility), where the heat factor is completely removed. But, if the stock is loose, POA/POI will be affected and provide intermittent accuracy issue. Also, in the field, temperatures during this fall's mornings are likely to have been much different than sighting sessions during the day prior to season. A crack in the stock/bedding could be the culprit.
 
I want to bring reloaded ammunition into the picture. Premium bullets or not. Experienced reloader or not.  Have you shot some good 'ole factory offerings through this gun at paper? Have you let another accomplished shooter fire it with the same ammo, getting the same results?
 
-Steve

[yorketransport]

My guess is either bedding or the scope. Make sure the stock bolts are tightened properly and that the barrel isn't making hard contact with the stock in one spot. If that all looks good I'd suspect a scope problem.

Andrew

[Bob33]

I call BS on metal fatigue or fouling. A gun that was fired 10-20 per year and always shot great up to and including this year, and then suddenly shoots 8 inch groups means something else is going on.  I think you would see a more gradual decline in accurary from fouling problems.

[fishngamereaper]

Ok, heres the skinny. Still kind of an unknown. Ive pulled the gun apart again. Put her back together. Cleaned the barrel, even let the bore cleaner sit in it for a couple of hours. Brushed the heck out of it. Ran patches till they where white. Havnt pulled the scope yet as I dont think that is the issue.

Shot 4 rounds got a nice group. 5th round flew. 6th round flew. Switched ammo and 3 good rounds. Ugh.

Now Im at the point where Im running out of like ammo to test, I have 3 of this and 4 of that, so I need to go get a couple more boxes to finish the trial and error process. It does seem that the rifle does not like remmington ammo. Normally I dont shoot remmington but I had some and figured I would give it a try. Over the last two days Ive shot about 40 rounds through it(shoulders a little stiff). Seems to like the 140gr Federal, and the 160 Winchesters I normally use, but hates 175gr remmingtons with a passion.

Now its becoming an expensive experiment with ammo. $50 a box sucks, but what do you do.

During this process my groups are getting better, as I am cleaning it after every 4-5 rounds. The problem is I thought I had it dialed in the end of yesterday with a solid three shot group, then #4 was a little off. Ill be getting more ammo today and getting to the range again next week to try and get it figured out.

Thanx to all that replied. At this point I think its a barrel issue, wether its fouling or a burr that I cant see.

And for some of the questions brought up, its a wood stock, never had any custom bedding work done, and I shoot factory ammo, dont have time to reload anymore. So ya, I dont expect super tight groups. AND no, its not me, all my shots on deer where rock solid, and at the risk of sounding to much like an arogant arse I wont comment on how competent my rifle skills are.

[arees]

When you pulled it apart, did that include pulling it out of the stock?  A pine needle or something else stuck between the barrel and the stock can throw a pattern out.  With a floated barrel you can run a dollar bill between the barrel and the stock all the way back to the action to make sure it is clear.  Perhaps it is never a problem with barrels that are not floated.

Did you look for any points where the stock is rubbing against the barrel?  Are the bolts holding the receiver to the stock evenly and correctly torqued?

[shoot-em-dead]

Check the mounting screws on the scope and where it secures to the rifle. I had one do that to me and I couldn't see the scope moving off the barrel with the naked eye, but one turn of the allen wrench proved it was loose.

[JackOfAllTrades]

Shot 4 rounds got a nice group. 5th round flew. 6th round flew. Switched ammo and 3 good rounds. Ugh.

The problem is I thought I had it dialed in the end of yesterday with a solid three shot group, then #4 was a little off. Ill be getting more ammo today and getting to the range again next week to try and get it figured out.

Thanx to all that replied. At this point I think its a barrel issue, wether its fouling or a burr that I cant see.

A burr or fouling will generally not allow a few/several shots in a good group, then leave one flier/flier after that.  All would be fliers/or a wider dispersion of group.   I have to agree with some other posters, that there is a sighting/optic issue since you have eliminated stock/action fit possibilities.
 
-Steve