Fisherman arrested for defending bait.

[Hermit]

     
NEWPORT BEACH, California (AP) -- A fisherman accused of stabbing a sea lion with a steak knife after the animal stole his bait has been arrested.

The sea lion, a six-foot female weighing about 150 pounds, was stabbed in the heart and was euthanized, said Dean Gomersall, animal care supervisor at the Pacific Marine Mammal Center in Laguna Beach.

"It's a horrible thing," Gomersall said. "My crew is extremely upset, and we're just glad the person was caught."

Hai Nguyen, 24, was fishing off a Newport pier about 12:30 p.m. Friday when the sea lion snatched the bait from his fishing pole.

"It was close enough so he could just reach out and stab it in the water," said Sgt. Evan Sailor, a police spokesman. "A number of people witnessed it and called police."

Nguyen was arrested without incident at the pier and held at Newport Beach Jail on $20,000 bail. He was expected to be arraigned next week on a charge of felony cruelty to animals, authorities said.

The case also was being investigated by the U.S. attorney's office for possible federal charges under the Marine Mammal Protection Act.

Nguyen could face a $25,000 fine and up to a year in prison if convicted on the animal cruelty charge. A conviction on federal charges of violating the Marine Mammal Protection Act could add $12,000 in civil penalties, criminal fines of up to $20,000 and additional jail time, authorities said.

[PolarBear]

Rediculous that the fines are so high for a stinking seal!!!!   I wish the tribes would exercise their right to shoot the damn things!!!

[Choclab]

The drunk *censored*s are too busy gill netting fish for eggs and killing trophy elk to worry about a silly little seal PolarBear........you must have had a brain fart...I forgive you...


LOL!!!!

[Hermit]

I got bitched at by the State Patrol a few years back for pulling and burning {I started the fire with litter} a couple indian fish nets on the lower Skagit. They had Fisher Slough completly blocked off with nets and the fish in them ranged from alive to rotted....... I popped a gasket........ I cut the ropes, pulled them in, released the live fish, started a fire and added the nets. First some Fisheries guys saw the smoke and I told them what I did and why. A Little later the State Patrol showed up and bitched at me and said I'd likely get shot if the indians returned. Never happen. That still pisses me off.

[PolarBear]

Haahaaa!!!!  I did that to some Squaxins that tied their chum nets off to my Dad's bulkhead.  I waited until they got out of sight, pulled the net up on the beach, picked out my oysters that were tangled in it and burned the damn thing on the beach.  They came back  a couple hours later and could not figure where their net was.  By then the tide had covered up the pile of melted plastic and was out of sight.  I also pulled a net out of the Skok and took it home for decoration.  One of my cousin's kids was swimming and got her foot hooked in the net which had been left there and was submerged under water.  We use to drop bales of hay off of the bridge over the Chehalis river at Montesano to wipe out gill nets down stream.  Pretty effective!

[ICEMAN]

I got bitched at by the State Patrol a few years back for pulling and burning {I started the fire with litter} a couple indian fish nets on the lower Skagit. They had Fisher Slough completly blocked off with nets and the fish in them ranged from alive to rotted....... I popped a gasket........ I cut the ropes, pulled them in, released the live fish, started a fire and added the nets. First some Fisheries guys saw the smoke and I told them what I did and why. A Little later the State Patrol showed up and bitched at me and said I'd likely get shot if the indians returned. Never happen. That still pisses me off.

Hermit, until I read this I was getting a little peaved with you, now I am not so sure. You may have hope afterall. What you claimed to have done is something many sportsmen have dreamed about doing. Conservative sportsman. Maybe you are really a conservative on the inside, trying to get out. We can help you.

[Curly]

Iceman, LOL...I agree.

Nguyen should be given a reward instead of being fined.  I hope he gets a decent lawyer and gets off by claiming self defense.

[Hermit]

Look..... I'm fairly hard to lable. And don't feel alone, I seem to piss people off. It's just this whole "Liberals" are ruining everything attitude that pisses me off. I was raised with guns and hunting and love my freedom to do what I wish. There are just as many whacked out Neocons as there are leftwing extreamists. Maybe it's just the labeling of people thats the problem.  In 89 I kicked a $100 worth of pea hay over the bridge at Conway that a old farmer/fisherman sold to me.......... You could get a LOT of pea hay for a $100. Musta wiped out 7 of 8 nets on the way downstream. And burning those nets on the bank seemed like a good thing to do. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.   Iceman, just WHAT IS a "conservative sportsman"?

[Ray]

I don't see much difference between eco-terrorists and the actions you describe hermit. I don't touch anyone else's stuff, let alone burn it. To me there is no emotional distress regarding fishing or hunting which is worth it.

As far as the fisherman on Newport Beach Pier. He's a Dumb Ass that got what he deserved. Even if I thought it was necessary to retaliate I couldn't think of any worse place could you do that at.

[Hermit]

I guess the difference is politcal ideals VS Gutfelt anger at wildlife waste. Call it whatever you want I never regretted it and would do it again.

[Ray]

I have my own personal ethics which I do not expect everyone else to agree with. Do what you will. I suppose someone could easily claim that those nets were not abandoned but it does ring true like waste to me. The real problem is that there is  often no pathway to regulate this sort of thing and there probably never will be. The cops and wildlife enforcement officers should spend more time attempting to regulate the people who might be abusing their rights. Instead we have people like the State Patrol scolding you and people in the DFW which will waste their time trying to craft ridiculous legislation on other matters.

[Curly]

It sounds like the sealion that was killed had lost its natural fear of humans.  It maybe was a danger to people if it was that brave to get that close to a person and steal the guys fish.  There really isn't enough info in the story to know for sure.  But I wouldn't worry about one less sealion in the world.  The herd needs thinned out.  One year in prison for that offense would be way too much, IMO.

[Ray]

One year in prison for that offense would be way too much, IMO.

I agree.

[popeshawnpaul]

You guys can't pick and choose your fights.  The guy basically "poached" an animal out of season.  If this was a bighorn sheep you would all be crying for the guy to go to jail forever...  You are basing your opinions on the fact that this animal eats and competes with ones you like (salmon).  Instead of picking the animals that are ok to injure or kill out of season, why don't we take a stand that all illegal taking or harming of animals is illegal and should be punished severely. 

I salmon fish myself and have had the same thoughts in my head when a seal has taken a 30lb king off my line while reeling it in.  However, if we want to hunt seals or wolves or any other animal, then change the laws.  When we pick and choose who we think should be punished severely or lightly based on how the judge values that animal, it leads to inconsistent judgments.  Then we all get pissed off when the guy who kills that sheep gets "off" on his charges...

[jackelope]

I'm gonna have to agree with huntwa and the pope on this one.
the guy broke the law and rightfully is paying the price for it, although i i will also agree that a year in prison is a bit much.

[GoldTip]

Yep, gotta side with the Pope and Huntwa as well.  Either way, the guy killed somethin he didn't have a tag for.  $25,000 and a year in jail seems a bit stiff to me considering we can't even seem to get a guy who runs a meth house into jail.  But either way it's still poaching, plain and simple.

[Ray]

You guys can't pick and choose your fights. 

Actually we can and we are.

The guy basically "poached" an animal out of season.  If this was a bighorn sheep you would all be crying for the guy to go to jail forever...  You are basing your opinions on the fact that this animal eats and competes with ones you like (salmon).  Instead of picking the animals that are ok to injure or kill out of season, why don't we take a stand that all illegal taking or harming of animals is illegal and should be punished severely.

I don't think I have condoned the activity , implied or suggested in any way shape or form that this was something to overlook for example. I think the guy was simply a retard for doing this. Saying that I don't believe in the severity of the penalties doesn't mean I think it's better to poach another animal. From the sounds of the story I would say that there is a large difference between outright poaching and reacting to a nuisance animal. Intent being the key.

When we pick and choose who we think should be punished severely or lightly based on how the judge values that animal, it leads to inconsistent judgments. 

I disagree. Someone killing a squirrel should not be punished as if he killed a bald eagle.

[boneaddict]

Dang, this board has a way of bringing out the different sides of us.  I never thought I'd see Hermit and Polarbear on one side of an issue and Jackelope, (fish fear him) and Huntwas on the other.  What side does boneaddict fall.  Well, I think about as much f sea lions as I do wolves.  I think he should be rewarded for gutting that bastage and he sould be hailed as a hero.  Too bad he does't have some Indian in him, then it would be OK.  No I don't condone poaching, and I really don't feel this is poaching.  I think poaching is when you take something from somebody thats important.  I think this is a fellas way of righting what the stupid game department or government can't get right.  I think sea lions are like the sage rats in my garden eating MY produce.  Yep, I am an extremist when it comes to this.  If it were up to me, all sea lions and wolves should be shot on sight.  Its not up to me though, and I won't do it, but boy I sure would like to.  Just think how many more endangered fish will be alive now.   Being that the Indians are in direct competition with those nasty little *censored*s, I'm surprised a few more don't end up as crab food.  By the way, I support hay bales in nets.  Once agian, a hard workin fellow trying to fix all of the WDFW's or Feds screw ups.

[popeshawnpaul]

It's a fun legal debate.  Most judges would value the seal over some deer due to the Marine Mammal Protection Act etc.  No matter what you say, it is illegal.  There is intent to commit the crime here.  I think what you are thinking is that it was not pre-meditated or that it was not his intent to keep the animal.  He grabbed a knife and went after and stabbed the animal.  If my wife came and grabbed my Big Mac and ate it one night and I grabbed a knife and stabbed her, there is intent and it's murder.  It may not be planned and pre-meditated, but there is the proper mens rea (intent) to commit the crime. We don't call it poaching in the legal system anymore, now it's just illegal taking of wildlife, whether you mean to keep the animal or not is irrelevant. 

The guy won't serve a year in jail and pay $25k.  Those are maximum penalties, so that if this was the 6th time this guy committed this crime they could throw the book at him.  It's the same way with your first DUI...you could get a year in jail and 5k fine...but nobody but the 6-time DUI offender does.  Every first DUI gets a day in jail and a $350 fine. 

He will get little jail, if any, and about 1k in fines. If he is charged with multiple federal crimes, that's a different story.  I'm surprised they even held him on bail.  Probably just because of the publicity with the case.  I got guys that almost run over cops and lead the police on a 60 mile high speed chase that are released on personal recognizance before the cops get off there shift...

[ICEMAN]

It's a fun legal debate. 

I am sorry, but I do not see this as a legal debate at all. It's sort of like this: " What's the difference between a dead lawyer on a street and a dead dog on the street? There are skid marks in front of the dog. ... "  Like in this true example, sportsmen place much more value on the life of salmon over seahogs. They also place more value on their sport of fishing, than they do at staring lovingly and all googlyeyed at the beloved seapig.

Many sportsmen are a bit greedy. I am. I wanna shoot coyotes so that more grouse, rabbit, turkey and deer survive. I wanna see cougar populations thinned down to preserve mature muley bucks. I wanna see things that eat stuff that I eat die. Not completely, not entirely, but with enogh frequency to see populations of things that I like to hunt or fish for increase. Yes, I am greedy.

Just like laywers drooling over a good accident scene, malpractice or class action suit, sportsmen would like to see herschel dead.

[Ray]

popeshaunpaul, you kind of fixated your reply on the word intent a little. Let me be clear. He didn't wake up that morning and decide to kill some creature to harvest it for whatever reason. It was a reaction of some sort. Therefore I view it as a situation much less punishable than someone who walks out into the woods without an elk tag and or out of season and takes one. As far as comparing it to murder... Well if you have to but I think it's in another league. Anyone who murders should get the axe unless they kill in self defense.

[Hermit]

Mans got a right to defend his bait..........Least he should.

[boneaddict]

I pretty much have the same mentality as Iceman in regards to being the ultimate predator.  That and in my mind try to tip the scales to normalcy.....meaning that the bleeding heart liberals are always protecting the predator.  They have the power of lobby, thus there are more cougars or more sea-lions or more grey wolves out there than there should be.  Unfortunatley there isn't much I can do about it, except in my mind.   If I ever put the drop on one for eating my salmon before I got it reeled in, there wouldn't be much trouble proving mens rea.

[jackelope]

let me get something straight...i don't support sea lions, wolves, lions, liberal hippies, "whine tits", etc. my one and only blackmouth trip this year i hooked up only to lose that one and only keeper fish to a damn seal. i don't like 'em and never will. when i moved here from upstate NY i marvelled at the sea lions and other various puget sound marine life...that was short  lived...now i curse them every chance i get. that don't mean i'm gonna shoot one. it ain't worth breaking the law for. it ain't worth breaking the law to shoot a wolf, a lion, nothing. if one threatens my family's or my safety or anyone else's safety and i can do something about  it, i'd put  'em in the crosshairs in a heartbeat. I'do the same thing to my own dog if he threatened anyone and he's the greatest dog to ever walk the face of the earth.
i think 9 out of 10 of you guys that say you would shoot...wouldn't because it's against the law, and thats A OK by me.
maybe i'm wrong, and thats ok too.

[boneaddict]

Good I was worried about you there for a minute. 

[Ray]

jackelope,
I think that pretty much spells it out for me too.

As I said before, killing this creature reactionary or not at the Newport Beach pier is *censored*ing stupid. It would be about as smart as killing one at Alki Beach on a Saturday afternoon. Or even like walking into the local park and killing pigeons with a small rifle because they stole your food when you were not looking. Some people have enough common sense to just let that dumb *censored* go when it's the wrong place and time.

[popeshawnpaul]

Iceman, I love the lawyer jokes.  Not quite sure the context, but funny anyways.

I'm greedy as well.  I hunt and fish everything you guys do.  But the law is the law.  He should be punished accordingly no matter what I think of the law or the victim of his attack.  If you don't like a law, do what you can to change it. 

[Hermit]

I wouldn't kill one ............ But I sure wouldn't mourn their dead carcusses when they wash up on the beach either.

[sisu]

We used "seal bombs" when commercial fishing to try and keep the critters away from our nets. You could do the same with M-80s just don't drop one in the boat.

[Otto1]

  By the way, I support hay bales in nets. 

why?

[Hermit]

Last updated August 2, 2007 9:47 p.m. PT

Panel set up to consider killing of sea lions
Animals still devouring salmon at dam ladder
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

A panel of experts has been named to consider the death penalty for California sea lions that are eating an increasing number of endangered salmon trying to swim over Bonneville Dam.

NOAA Fisheries, the federal agency that oversees marine mammals and salmon, said Thursday that 18 experts will review the proposal from the states of Washington, Oregon and Idaho to start killing sea lions that won't stop eating salmon at the dam.

The Pinniped-Fishery Interaction Task Force has representatives from government agencies, Indian tribes, fishing groups, the Oregon Zoo and the Humane Society of the United States.

It has scheduled its first meeting for Sept. 4 in Portland. It is to make a recommendation within two months.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/326279_sealions03.html

[boneaddict]

A ton of salmon will die before they can work that deal out, but I am glad they are at least thinking about it.  I laughed when they captured one, hauled it down to California, and it beat the boat back up here to eat more fish. 

[Krustypuff]

HAHAHA I can rember when they were going to kill the seals at the locks in Ballard. Never happend it takes a federal judge to override the mammmal act and i dont see it happening. People that get pissed at the seal for stealing thier fish need to grow up. You are in its worlkd when you fish and it no difrent than long liners loosing halibut to whal;es. Should all the killer whales be killed because they are eating rthe long liners fish. No i dont think so.. All animals have thier place in the food chain. And because we are at the top we feel it is our right to chose what lives and dies. So by that accords if you are out hunting and steal a bigger hunters trophy does he have the right to kill you because you took his deer or bear or what ever. Rebait your hook and cast again...... Man I am reading some stupid ideas on here. Killing something because you dont like it or it eats the fish is FUC_ED up.... LEts start whacking all the commercial fiusherman who are destroying fisheries by over fishing it, cuttign nets and lettign them drift and tear up little nemos habitat???

[Curly]

Krustypuff, I'm not sure about the pier down in Cali, but on the Columbia River the sealions are way overpopulated and they are decimating the wild steelhead and sturgeon down there.  The sealions would not have the easy eating opportunities if it weren't for the dams that make the fish an easy meal.  There is absolutely no reason not to thin the herd.

As far as the incident with the guy that stabbed that sealion.......he was a *censored* for stabbing the sealion.  But on the other hand, the sealions should be more afraid of humans than to get that close.  Maybe they should get educated by getting whacked on the head with a pole once in a while.

[DOUBLELUNG]

I'm scratching my head here.  If you can kill a large, wild, unconfined carnivore with a STEAK KNIFE, ie, within arm's reach, that is self-defense.  Not poaching, not murder.  And, a habituated large carnivore that is unafraid of humans needs to be killed.  If he shot it at a distance with a firearm, that would be different.

How would you guys like to be prosecuted for killing a bear or cougar with a knife, because it did not have it's teeth or claws in you??  Would be no different if a habituated bear was checking you out looking for a food reward - you don't need to be bleeding to justify defense. 

[popeshawnpaul]

LOL.  It's a seal dude.  Never seen any rabbid man-eating seals out there...  I've scuba dived with them for 18 years, they are like domesticated dogs, they like to be pet.  On the other hand...I have been charged by grizzly and black bears.  There is a real threat there.  See the difference?  Has a seal ever attacked or killed a human...

This reminds me... I think there is an old South Park episode, where the deer runs at the hunters...  they are coming right for us...shoot the deer in self defense...

[tlbradford]

What I would really like to see is the federal government to keep the hell out of State's business.  The state that is being affected by the sea lions should regulate how they are managed.  The wolves in Idaho should be managed by Idaho. 

This guy reacted in the wrong way.  He should be punished.  I hate the tribal netting and waste as much as the next guy, but there is a right and wrong way to go about handling situations in which their privelages are being abused.  Vigilante justice like burning the nets and dumping hay don't help our cause for getting the rules changed.  They only strengthen the opposition's case.  However, if documented abuse is not being responded too by our elected officials and gov't, then sometimes extreme measures are needed.

[DOUBLELUNG]

 LOL.  It's a seal dude.  Never seen any rabbid man-eating seals out there...  I've scuba dived with them for 18 years, they are like domesticated dogs, they like to be pet.  On the other hand...I have been charged by grizzly and black bears.  There is a real threat there.  See the difference?  Has a seal ever attacked or killed a human...
[/quote]

Thanks Pope-dude - I feel better now.  Lord knows, nobody's ever been hurt or killed by domesticated dogs!  Whew!  What a relief!

I've been hunting grizzly country for about 16 years, never yet seen an aggressive bear, black or griz.  Every one that's seen or smelled me, ran like hell.  So, despite your personal experience logic, based on my personal experiences you must be full of doodoo!

Fisherman in Cali was attacked this year by a sea lion that took him out of his boat.  I worked with a gal once who was badly bitten on the inner thigh by a sea lion - talk about injury to insult!  We raised an awful lot of speculations about that pinnipeds intentions, given the proximity to .. seafood.