Fisherman arrested for defending bait.

[GoldTip]

Yep, gotta side with the Pope and Huntwa as well.  Either way, the guy killed somethin he didn't have a tag for.  $25,000 and a year in jail seems a bit stiff to me considering we can't even seem to get a guy who runs a meth house into jail.  But either way it's still poaching, plain and simple.

[Ray]

You guys can't pick and choose your fights. 

Actually we can and we are.

The guy basically "poached" an animal out of season.  If this was a bighorn sheep you would all be crying for the guy to go to jail forever...  You are basing your opinions on the fact that this animal eats and competes with ones you like (salmon).  Instead of picking the animals that are ok to injure or kill out of season, why don't we take a stand that all illegal taking or harming of animals is illegal and should be punished severely.

I don't think I have condoned the activity , implied or suggested in any way shape or form that this was something to overlook for example. I think the guy was simply a retard for doing this. Saying that I don't believe in the severity of the penalties doesn't mean I think it's better to poach another animal. From the sounds of the story I would say that there is a large difference between outright poaching and reacting to a nuisance animal. Intent being the key.

When we pick and choose who we think should be punished severely or lightly based on how the judge values that animal, it leads to inconsistent judgments. 

I disagree. Someone killing a squirrel should not be punished as if he killed a bald eagle.

[boneaddict]

Dang, this board has a way of bringing out the different sides of us.  I never thought I'd see Hermit and Polarbear on one side of an issue and Jackelope, (fish fear him) and Huntwas on the other.  What side does boneaddict fall.  Well, I think about as much f sea lions as I do wolves.  I think he should be rewarded for gutting that bastage and he sould be hailed as a hero.  Too bad he does't have some Indian in him, then it would be OK.  No I don't condone poaching, and I really don't feel this is poaching.  I think poaching is when you take something from somebody thats important.  I think this is a fellas way of righting what the stupid game department or government can't get right.  I think sea lions are like the sage rats in my garden eating MY produce.  Yep, I am an extremist when it comes to this.  If it were up to me, all sea lions and wolves should be shot on sight.  Its not up to me though, and I won't do it, but boy I sure would like to.  Just think how many more endangered fish will be alive now.   Being that the Indians are in direct competition with those nasty little *censored*s, I'm surprised a few more don't end up as crab food.  By the way, I support hay bales in nets.  Once agian, a hard workin fellow trying to fix all of the WDFW's or Feds screw ups.

[popeshawnpaul]

It's a fun legal debate.  Most judges would value the seal over some deer due to the Marine Mammal Protection Act etc.  No matter what you say, it is illegal.  There is intent to commit the crime here.  I think what you are thinking is that it was not pre-meditated or that it was not his intent to keep the animal.  He grabbed a knife and went after and stabbed the animal.  If my wife came and grabbed my Big Mac and ate it one night and I grabbed a knife and stabbed her, there is intent and it's murder.  It may not be planned and pre-meditated, but there is the proper mens rea (intent) to commit the crime. We don't call it poaching in the legal system anymore, now it's just illegal taking of wildlife, whether you mean to keep the animal or not is irrelevant. 

The guy won't serve a year in jail and pay $25k.  Those are maximum penalties, so that if this was the 6th time this guy committed this crime they could throw the book at him.  It's the same way with your first DUI...you could get a year in jail and 5k fine...but nobody but the 6-time DUI offender does.  Every first DUI gets a day in jail and a $350 fine. 

He will get little jail, if any, and about 1k in fines. If he is charged with multiple federal crimes, that's a different story.  I'm surprised they even held him on bail.  Probably just because of the publicity with the case.  I got guys that almost run over cops and lead the police on a 60 mile high speed chase that are released on personal recognizance before the cops get off there shift...

[ICEMAN]

It's a fun legal debate. 

I am sorry, but I do not see this as a legal debate at all. It's sort of like this: " What's the difference between a dead lawyer on a street and a dead dog on the street? There are skid marks in front of the dog. ... "  Like in this true example, sportsmen place much more value on the life of salmon over seahogs. They also place more value on their sport of fishing, than they do at staring lovingly and all googlyeyed at the beloved seapig.

Many sportsmen are a bit greedy. I am. I wanna shoot coyotes so that more grouse, rabbit, turkey and deer survive. I wanna see cougar populations thinned down to preserve mature muley bucks. I wanna see things that eat stuff that I eat die. Not completely, not entirely, but with enogh frequency to see populations of things that I like to hunt or fish for increase. Yes, I am greedy.

Just like laywers drooling over a good accident scene, malpractice or class action suit, sportsmen would like to see herschel dead.

[Ray]

popeshaunpaul, you kind of fixated your reply on the word intent a little. Let me be clear. He didn't wake up that morning and decide to kill some creature to harvest it for whatever reason. It was a reaction of some sort. Therefore I view it as a situation much less punishable than someone who walks out into the woods without an elk tag and or out of season and takes one. As far as comparing it to murder... Well if you have to but I think it's in another league. Anyone who murders should get the axe unless they kill in self defense.

[Hermit]

Mans got a right to defend his bait..........Least he should.

[boneaddict]

I pretty much have the same mentality as Iceman in regards to being the ultimate predator.  That and in my mind try to tip the scales to normalcy.....meaning that the bleeding heart liberals are always protecting the predator.  They have the power of lobby, thus there are more cougars or more sea-lions or more grey wolves out there than there should be.  Unfortunatley there isn't much I can do about it, except in my mind.   If I ever put the drop on one for eating my salmon before I got it reeled in, there wouldn't be much trouble proving mens rea.

[jackelope]

let me get something straight...i don't support sea lions, wolves, lions, liberal hippies, "whine tits", etc. my one and only blackmouth trip this year i hooked up only to lose that one and only keeper fish to a damn seal. i don't like 'em and never will. when i moved here from upstate NY i marvelled at the sea lions and other various puget sound marine life...that was short  lived...now i curse them every chance i get. that don't mean i'm gonna shoot one. it ain't worth breaking the law for. it ain't worth breaking the law to shoot a wolf, a lion, nothing. if one threatens my family's or my safety or anyone else's safety and i can do something about  it, i'd put  'em in the crosshairs in a heartbeat. I'do the same thing to my own dog if he threatened anyone and he's the greatest dog to ever walk the face of the earth.
i think 9 out of 10 of you guys that say you would shoot...wouldn't because it's against the law, and thats A OK by me.
maybe i'm wrong, and thats ok too.

[boneaddict]

Good I was worried about you there for a minute. 

[Ray]

jackelope,
I think that pretty much spells it out for me too.

As I said before, killing this creature reactionary or not at the Newport Beach pier is *censored*ing stupid. It would be about as smart as killing one at Alki Beach on a Saturday afternoon. Or even like walking into the local park and killing pigeons with a small rifle because they stole your food when you were not looking. Some people have enough common sense to just let that dumb *censored* go when it's the wrong place and time.

[popeshawnpaul]

Iceman, I love the lawyer jokes.  Not quite sure the context, but funny anyways.

I'm greedy as well.  I hunt and fish everything you guys do.  But the law is the law.  He should be punished accordingly no matter what I think of the law or the victim of his attack.  If you don't like a law, do what you can to change it. 

[Hermit]

I wouldn't kill one ............ But I sure wouldn't mourn their dead carcusses when they wash up on the beach either.

[sisu]

We used "seal bombs" when commercial fishing to try and keep the critters away from our nets. You could do the same with M-80s just don't drop one in the boat.

[Otto1]

  By the way, I support hay bales in nets. 

why?