Ethical ? (long shot)

[crazymofo]

  Something thats really been bothering me after reading all these comments on long shots is people keep saying its " unethical" to shoot long distance. I wonder if they really mean that or are they just brain washed into thinking that after reading too many hunting magazines. I quit reading hunting magazines because you can go to the store, pick up any hunting magazine and somewhere in it some pansy will tell you its "unethical" to shoot at anything thats not broadside or further than 40 yds.  Last time i checked the goal of most real hunters is to "harvest" an animal. If that means 5 yards or 100 yds i dont think "ethics" has anything to do with it. If you can make the shot thats all that counts. Either way its not gonna end good for the animal.And in my opinion if an archer cant shoot a clay pigeon 4 out of 5 times at 40 yds. then they shouldn't be bow hunting. It's not the long shot thats giving bow hunters a black eye, its all the idiots who's pre-season practice consists of two trips to the range and a dozen new arrows and then expect to 10 ring a deer at 70 yards. Maybe they should spend less time typing and more time practicing.

[EastWaViking]

biggest problem isn't being able to make the shot, it's what the animal does while the arrow is in the air.
At 20-40 yards there isn't much reaction time, at 100 it could step forward, duck, turn, etc, then you are searching
for a gut shot animal.  If a person is able to kill game at 100 yards and never wound one...good for them, but, it's
nothing I would ever try.

[tlbradford]

And in my opinion if an archer cant shoot a clay pigeon 4 out of 5 times at 40 yds. then they shouldn't be bow hunting.

I probably couldn't hit a clay pigeon at 40 yards 80% of the time because of reduced practice time, but I can at 30 yards.  So is it ok for me to bowhunt?

[huntnphool]

I might not be able to hit the clay 4 out of 5 times at 40 yards every other day but I will hit the pull out section on a 3D deer 100% of the time at 40 yards, is that okay?

[Bscman]

I agree that you shouldn't be taking shots at distances where you can't group well. If your groups are over 5-6" at a given distance (say 40yds) then you need to limit yourself to shots CLOSER than that distance.

I have no problem with people taking 50, 60, even 80yd shots with their bows....if they're confident, well practiced, and have good equipment.

At 80yds my arrows are really reaching high...so I'm not going to try it...but with modern bows, 70-80yds is just as attainable as 40yds with an older compound bow.

The key is practice and knowing your limits.
Too many people take "wishful" thoughts just because the animal is a bit bigger, or the season is nearing it's end....and too many animals get wounded and not recovered because of it!

[WAcoyotehunter]

   I quit reading hunting magazines because you can go to the store, pick up any hunting magazine and somewhere in it some pansy will tell you its "unethical" to shoot at anything thats not broadside or further than 40 yds.  Last time i checked the goal of most real hunters is to "harvest" an animal. If that means 5 yards or 100 yds i dont think "ethics" has anything to do with it. If you can make the shot thats all that counts. Either way its not gonna end good for the animal.

Do you mean "pansy's" like chuck adams and the guys that regularly kill huge animals at ethical ranges?

A deer or elk is beyone bow range at 60+ yards because they jump the string and you end up crippling the animal. 

Most "real" hunters are not just interested in killing the animal by whatever means possible (ie. rediculous, low percentage shots) that's what poachers are interested in.  "Real" hunters are interested in killing an animal w/ a good shot to the vital that is as close to a 'sure thing' as they can get...inside 40 yds and broadside.

When you gut shoot a deer and lose it because of a long shot I hope you change your views.  It won't make much of a difference to the deer left crippled in the woods though. 

[Ray]

When you go to the range and shoot whatever the target may be at whatever the range is it still cannot match real conditions. Wind blowing different directions, animals moving, and sometimes even the shooting stance can be factors. I think that each person should know what is right and it is their duty to try and make a good shot for a clean kill. If someone is compelled to make a long shot I don't really have any business to tell them they cannot. There is no hard lined rule in the sand which measures what someone might be capable of doing. I can shoot clay pigeons at 25 yards with my bow. Just yesterday I could not hit the target with the angle, wind conditions and stance something between 15 and 20 yards. The arrows were slightly being lifted with the wind.. but I used the same aiming point on my second shot because I was not sure it was me or my inability to conform to the conditions. On my 3rd shot I confirmed it was my inability to conform to the immediate conditions of the situation. There was no 3-D shoot which I know of which can mimmick that shot. I have spent a lot of time practicing this year. I don't know how many thousands of arrows I have let fly this year... but my fingers have callouses on them and I don't need a shooting glove or tab any more. I think it also makes me more accurate with not having one. Each person will know their limitations and it is up to them to be consciously aware of what they think is right. Every shot is unique and they are not always the same.

What you are doing is learning how to tune your body and mind to shoot your bow accurately and instinctively. Then trying to apply that to the "real" environment..

[SCRUBS]

Personally, i think it is up to each individual to decide what the max "ethical" distance the will shot game at. JMHO

[Ray]

dirty.dan4, I would make sure the broadheads and the fielt tips weigh the same. I would also check shaft length on the arrows so that they are matched and even that the arrow is spined the same weight. I would even consider having the same fletching..

[dirty.dan4]

Everything is the same.  The only thing that is different is where the broadhead hits compared to the fieldtip.  I have always understood it that when you put a broadhead on an arrow, its just like adding extra feathers.  If I have to I can adjust my shot.  I guess I am really anxious about the opener.  I dont want anything going wrong.  Thank you for the help.

[wastickslinger]

Crazymofo- What irritates me is when someone is boasting about making a 70,80,90,100 yard shot on a chat forum they are feeding the minds of others. There are so many new bow hunters on this site that might misinterpret the message you are sending when you talk about long shots like this. Not every new hunter is going to realize his limitation right away. I know you will say that it is not your responsibility to limit what you discuss but I feel that it is. Whether you like it or not there are people reading these forums, watching shows and reading magazines looking for advise. I do not feel that what you are implicating about long range shooting with a bow is good advise.

I do not disagree that you can hit clay every time at 100 yards. Olympians do it all the time. Do you know how much penetration you will get from your arrow at 100 yards if you miss by 3 inches and strike the shoulder. You would be lying if you said it would break the bone and reach vitals.

I also do not disagree that 30 yards is too far for some. Everyone has limitations but there is a line somewhere. When you cross that line the slightest mistake is magnified greatly.

Shoot 100 yards if you want. I do not care. But you should also have the mentality that when you criple a buck(not if, when), I would expect you will make the ethical choice and notch your tag and hang up the bow till next year.

You also stated that the "the goal of most hunters is to harvest and animal". My goal is to harvest an animal if the right opportunity presents itself. But I will not sacrafice multiple animals and watch them limped off with an arrow in their ass because my goal was to kill. I will eat my tag and I have. I am out there to enjoy what I love doing, the comradary with buddies and family, camping, hiking, scouting. There is alot more than "harvest". I feel that with a goal of harvest only you set yourself up for reckless behavior.
 

[Broken Arrow]

Crazymofo,

I started the "long shot" thread and in doing so was just curious as to folks thoughs. I actually wanted to hear what other folks thought and the reasons why or why not to take this shot? I think there were many good post and I appreciated folks insight. Some folks felt it was ok...some did not, but most agreed with the fact that you should shoot what your comfortable with. I would hate to have a litmus test in regards to what you can and can not hit at certain ranges. Hunting is an idividual sport, you ned to know your limits, your responsibility to cleanly harvest game as well as the "black eye" it can give the sport when you go outside these limits...I consider that ethical. Off to elk camp , in 10 hours, until the 22nd....hope to shoot a nice bull if the opportunity arises!

[cohoho]

Used to Caribou hunt alot way up north with a bow and rifle.  There is absolutely NO ground cover except maybe a small ditch or really tall dead heads, so long shots are sometimes the norms, I state long shots in the range of 40-50 yards.  There were quite a few folks boosting about longer shots and their effectiveness on a different chat/forum.  Taking and risking shots out to 80-90 yards and beyond. Every yearly trip we would see Caribou running near the Haul Road with arrows stuck out their guts, back, butt, leg, and every where imaginable.  Mind you all of this is observe from a public dirt road and watching them (hunters) in the field going after the Bou like a circus performer.  I saw so many taking these wild ass shots that is was disgusting to observe.  I find it hard to believe that an ethical person would conceive such a shot, there are exceptions yes, but not the everyday shooter for certain.  Hunting strictly for the harvest at all cost is a bad perception of what it is all about.  If indeed you have to hunt for food then that is a different story, but in this day and age with the cost of equipment, gas, etc... It is by far cheaper to go to the grocery store and get what you need for that ULTIMATE HARVEST!!!!!!  If a dead animal is the only success and reward to you then maybe you ought to rethink why you hunt.....

[Machias]

This pansy will just keep his mouth shut, this is one of my pet peeves.  

[wastickslinger]

I guess I should have kept to myself too. Oh well too late