Entiat slaughter??

[boneaddict]

I'd  imagine that the tribe is aware of those hunting in the Entiat with the last name starting with a W

[PlateauNDN]

Plat,

So if they get video proof, then what will they do?

It's like anything else, you have to build a case to show cause for wanting to do anything.  One incident isn't going to be even a dent, it can be chalked up to an isolated incident but, a history of incidents, that is something else.

Like plat has said many times they need proof and pics. Of 15 deer piled up in bed of truck not just rumors

I have to agree with a neutral mind.  Unless I have credible pics or witnesses this incident didn't happen.  I know it happened but, if I were in a position of authority I'd say it didn't, based solely on the word of people I don't know.  They could possibly be making it up just to make it look bad, who knows for sure until I see some proof or have somebody that can be a credible witness to the events.

I'd  imagine that the tribe is aware of those hunting in the Entiat with the last name starting with a W

Some people do and some people don't and that's the biggest problem, the ones that matter don't know what's going on.  They aren't worried about one or two families they are to busy worrying about the big matters that involve the Tribe as a whole.

[skywalker253]

As I have reiterated time and time again, our Leaders do not know everybody or everything as a lot of people on here would like to think.  they want credible proof/evidence/witnesses that things like this is being done not just by our own Tribesmen but, others as well.  Just saying this happened and that happened because you heard isn't credible.  I've been told time and time again if I don't find credible anything then in their eyes it's not happening so why worry about it.
[/quote]

Cmon Plat! You come off as a very intelligent individual, who knows his stuff etc. Do you expect the forum to beleive that the tribal leaders don't beleive this is happening, unless they see proof? So in their eyes; all of us in this forum are making this stuff up. The complaints for the game department are all BS etc. I am curious to hear their response when the natives shot a bull elk at the Oak Creek feeding station and asked the game department to open the gate, so they could retrieve their elk. That was witnessed by more than 50-75 people. My understanding, was an article was written up about the abuse in the Yakima paper and the Seattle Times. My source is the Oak Creek feeding station and whoever the 2 game wardens are that patrol the area. This was 2 years ago. I was at the feeding station the week after it happened and people were very upset at the station.

[skywalker253]

Further; what I was told by the game department. The tribe is well aware of, who the abusers are. The game department stops and checks them to make sure they have their enrollment card, etc. They write their names down and the multiple incidents (the history you are referring too.) The game department meets with the tribe to discuss this, but the tribe does not do anything about it.

[Bigtine96]

So pretty much the tribe is going to do nothing like they have been doing. This is going on and its not just rumors and if the Yakima Nation is not going to do anything about it then they are a complete discrace and zit on the face of respectful Tribal nations. I love these deer and elk heards just as much as any hardcore Indian. And it makes me fighting mad to see this happening and nothing being done. Whitefoot is just one of the abusers that is out there.

[skywalker253]

Seperate issue- It is the abuse of the fish and game, which makes people so upset. Plat said they are not worried about a family or two. If I go into Mt. Rainier National Park and shoot up a herd of elk; it would be on the news, I would get jail time, etc. Every environmentalist group would want me put away for life. So why is it ok by tribal standards for a family or two, to go in and ABUSE the fish and game.

Example- The natives allowed 50 CRAB POTS PER NATIVE. We are only allowed 2 PER PERSON. They have NO LIMIT on crab. We have 5 CRAB LIMIT PER PERSON. They natives went in 1 month prior to the general crab season this July and had 2000 plus CRAB POTS out in. They did this for 1 month straight. They are not suppose to keep FEMALE CRAB. I caught a guy at the dock with easy 500 females of all sizes. I asked him why he had them and he said "it must of been a mistake". He threw them over board and that was the end of it. You can say that this was an issolated incident, but the same guys are out there daily; just like our winter ranges. If the tribe cares about the resource, then setting a 50 CRAB POT PER NATIVE AND NO LIMIT is NOT protecting the resource. That is called ABUSE and wiping them OUT!!!

Why do you think the Nisqually has barely any crab anymore? Cus the Nisqually natives went in and wiped them all out.

[Time Immemorial]

YEAH COME ON PLAT 

[grundy53]

Plat,

So if they get video proof, then what will they do?

It's like anything else, you have to build a case to show cause for wanting to do anything.  One incident isn't going to be even a dent, it can be chalked up to an isolated incident but, a history of incidents, that is something else.

Like plat has said many times they need proof and pics. Of 15 deer piled up in bed of truck not just rumors

I have to agree with a neutral mind.  Unless I have credible pics or witnesses this incident didn't happen.  I know it happened but, if I were in a position of authority I'd say it didn't, based solely on the word of people I don't know.  They could possibly be making it up just to make it look bad, who knows for sure until I see some proof or have somebody that can be a credible witness to the events.

I'd  imagine that the tribe is aware of those hunting in the Entiat with the last name starting with a W

Some people do and some people don't and that's the biggest problem, the ones that matter don't know what's going on.  They aren't worried about one or two families they are to busy worrying about the big matters that involve the Tribe as a whole.

So basically what you are saying is that your tribal leaders are going to bury their heads in the sand? If they don't believe the accusations why don't they do something proactive such as INVESTIGATING the claims? Our game department doesn't just say "oh well you didn't bring me 100% irrefutable evidence of repeated violations" they investigate. Sounds to me like they just don't want to know. Which is sad because that means they just don't care. Some stewards they are...

[grundy53]

So pretty much the tribe is going to do nothing like they have been doing. This is going on and its not just rumors and if the Yakima Nation is not going to do anything about it then they are a complete discrace and zit on the face of respectful Tribal nations. I love these deer and elk heards just as much as any hardcore Indian. And it makes me fighting mad to see this happening and nothing being done. Whitefoot is just one of the abusers that is out there.

  x1000 I would be embarrassed to be part of a tribe that did this. To be honest I think the ones that let this happen are worse then the ones doing the killing.

[skywalker253]

So pretty much the tribe is going to do nothing like they have been doing. This is going on and its not just rumors and if the Yakima Nation is not going to do anything about it then they are a complete discrace and zit on the face of respectful Tribal nations. I love these deer and elk heards just as much as any hardcore Indian. And it makes me fighting mad to see this happening and nothing being done. Whitefoot is just one of the abusers that is out there.

  x1000 I would be embarrassed to be part of a tribe that did this. To be honest I think the ones that let this happen are worse then the ones doing the killing.

I wonder what happens, when a fellow tribe member gets murdered? Do they ask the witness for a video and pics?

"No video no pics...she must have died of natural causes." Despite the fact she has a single bow and arrow wound to her chest.

[PlateauNDN]

As I have reiterated time and time again, our Leaders do not know everybody or everything as a lot of people on here would like to think.  they want credible proof/evidence/witnesses that things like this is being done not just by our own Tribesmen but, others as well.  Just saying this happened and that happened because you heard isn't credible.  I've been told time and time again if I don't find credible anything then in their eyes it's not happening so why worry about it.

Cmon Plat! You come off as a very intelligent individual, who knows his stuff etc. Do you expect the forum to beleive that the tribal leaders don't beleive this is happening, unless they see proof? So in their eyes; all of us in this forum are making this stuff up. The complaints for the game department are all BS etc. I am curious to hear their response when the natives shot a bull elk at the Oak Creek feeding station and asked the game department to open the gate, so they could retrieve their elk. That was witnessed by more than 50-75 people. My understanding, was an article was written up about the abuse in the Yakima paper and the Seattle Times. My source is the Oak Creek feeding station and whoever the 2 game wardens are that patrol the area. This was 2 years ago. I was at the feeding station the week after it happened and people were very upset at the station.
[/quote]

skywalker, I suggest you calm down, slow down and comprehend what I was saying.  You've recently joined and that's great, another voice to be heard but, don't sit there thinking you know everything about the situation in regards to me.  I've been dealing with these types of situation well before you came here, I've been dealing with them while I've been here and I'm going to continue to deal with them long after I'm done with here. 

Am I the one denying these incidents?  No.  Am I the one saying they are completely false and innaccurate?  No.  So don't sit there thinking I don't give 2 sh... about what's taking place because I've cared before I came here.  My defense has always been for what's good of the resource and providing a voice for my People that wasn't always "rub it in your face" or "who cares" or even "F... Y.." for that matter. 

My words I my words and when I speak in response it's always from me and nobody else.  I tell everybody like it is and not afraid to wait for somebody else to say it first.  When I'm telling you this is what I'm being told, then that's what I'm being told whether you like it or not.  Do I believe that some are turning a blind eye?  Yes, I believe there are some that turn a blind eye and there isn't a whole lot I can do about that.  Do I believe there are some that want the truth and want to learn more about what's going on?  Yes. 

What you hear from the WDFW Game Wardens is probably true but, they are only talking to other Game Wardens and Staff not the actual Council Leaders, the ones that run our Tribal Government.  I don't expect our Leaders to know every single one of our 10,000 plus members but, I do expect them to have an idea of what's taking place and that's what I try to provide for them.

You expect them to know that many people and what they do?  That's like asking the City Mayor or County Commissioner to know everybody and what they do.

From what I've been told and what I know this basically has to be handled and presented as if it were a criminal case or civil case.  There has to be a sufficient amount of evidence/proof before it is presented to them and then they can decide the next course of action is. 

If I were in their position I'd like as much credible proof as possible before I would make a decision because it doesn't just affect one or two families it would affect the entire Tribe.  Decisions that affect the entire Tribe have to be met with before the entire Tribal Council and then have to go before the General Assembly and then the General Assembly decides what actions our Leaders take.  If you can't convince our Leaders with credible proof and get their support behind whatever decision they make then I guarantee you're not going to win support from the General Assembly and they will veto everything down without skipping a heartbeat. 

In all honesty I don't care what happens with other Tribes and their seasons as long as it doesn't affect me or my Tribe.  I don't care about what the Nisqually do that's up to them, dislike them for their practices.  You can listen to what I have to say or not and you can choose to assist with finding a solution to the problem or you can just continue to sit around and do nothing while damning the Tribe(s).  It really doesn't matter to me what you do because I'm going to continue to do what I've been doing.   

Grundy, for the most part they have a business to run and when they delegate they delegate.  I don't expect them to believe everything I say because I have yet to find anybody on here that is willing to step forward with proof and say this is what I saw and I'm going to testify to it.  I've made that request since last winter and all I get is hearsay, people telling me this is what I heard or this is what I told by so and so???  Tell me, does that sound credible to you?  It doesn't to me.

I also beg to differ, I reported multiple poaching incidences in the Umtanum and Bethel and they didn't even bother going to check them out or come out.  There was one where I basically investigated the whole thing myself and all they said was "ok, thanks for the info." and they never even showed up.  I went back every other day for almost a week and didn't see any prints leading up to 2 different sites and if I had gotten to them sooner I would've quartered them myself and took them home.  So it's not one side doesn't do nothing it's both sides and it's stuff like that that needs to change.

I'm not embarrassed of who I am and where I come from because I know that's not representative of me nor is it representative of the majority.  I represent myself and I let my actions not words speak for themselves and you may or may not like what I have to say but, it's more than what you're going to get from others on this matter.

So pretty much the tribe is going to do nothing like they have been doing. This is going on and its not just rumors and if the Yakima Nation is not going to do anything about it then they are a complete discrace and zit on the face of respectful Tribal nations. I love these deer and elk heards just as much as any hardcore Indian. And it makes me fighting mad to see this happening and nothing being done. Whitefoot is just one of the abusers that is out there.

  x1000 I would be embarrassed to be part of a tribe that did this. To be honest I think the ones that let this happen are worse then the ones doing the killing.

I wonder what happens, when a fellow tribe member gets murdered? Do they ask the witness for a video and pics?

"No video no pics...she must have died of natural causes." Despite the fact she has a single bow and arrow wound to her chest.

No we let the FEDS do that for us and they screw it up almost every time.  My cousin was murdered over a girl and the killer was seen leaving the room all bloody but, since they screwed up some minor details and didn't follow procedure he got 4 years on a deal for manslaughter.

Or how about the father that shot his son point blank with a 30-06 in front of his other children and grandchildren, great job FEDS way to let another one walk out the door scott free.

Shall I continue?

[Time Immemorial]

Good one plat now breath before you go beat soneone up

[MtnMuley]

Well Plat, from what I'm gathering on what you're saying, a guy could take justice into his own hands with these deer slayers and probably walk "scott free"?   Just a joke

[Time Immemorial]

I'm still waiting for my beating from a member that sent me a threat through pm  

[rosscrazyelk]

I have no answers but know something needs to change And quick .. Otherwise I fear the Entiat will be closed down , and thats sad.