Entiat slaughter??

[huntnphool]

Not trying to be argumentative, but I think the "outdated treaty" argument is always made with a lack of understanding.  The treaties have essentially been rewritten numerous times over the course of history through court decision, congressional acts, etc... and very seldom (if ever) have these "re-writes" been to the benefit of Indians.

Not all of the treaties have been redone, I believe the Yakima tribe is the only tribe that still has the original treaty intact.

 That being said there are a few things that could be done but it would be ugly, and I doubt the government would do it for something as low on their radar as hunting/fishing, I think they are holding those cards for something they really want.

 In the meantime, a motorized vehicle ban with locked gates would do wonders.

[skywalker253]

I think it might be time to try to hire Tim Iman (spelling?)  And I think if it was proposed as an initiative to "limit" the killing of vulnerable deer the West side tree hugger gang might support it??

Unfortunately it's not a "west side tree hugger" decision to make. It's a federal thing and Iman has nothing to do with it. Gates with no motorized access is the answer.

So lock the gates in the Entiat, so then they just go elsewhere and kill off another unlocked area. That makes some sense, but I don't see this being a longterm solution. Their tribal hunting laws need to be revised. Even then they will probably still abuse the resource and get off in tribal court. Perhaps a combination solutions is the best approach. I think the FEDS should give the state game departments the rights to catch/detain natives offending. Then they are turned over to the tribe for prosecution. Perhaps it is that way now? Not sure?

[huntnphool]

I think it might be time to try to hire Tim Iman (spelling?)  And I think if it was proposed as an initiative to "limit" the killing of vulnerable deer the West side tree hugger gang might support it??

Unfortunately it's not a "west side tree hugger" decision to make. It's a federal thing and Iman has nothing to do with it. Gates with no motorized access is the answer.

So lock the gates in the Entiat, so then they just go elsewhere and kill off another unlocked area.

Most other wintering areas already are locked and have vehicle bans during that time period.

[6x6in6]

I think it might be time to try to hire Tim Iman (spelling?)  And I think if it was proposed as an initiative to "limit" the killing of vulnerable deer the West side tree hugger gang might support it??

Unfortunately it's not a "west side tree hugger" decision to make. It's a federal thing and Iman has nothing to do with it. Gates with no motorized access is the answer.

So lock the gates in the Entiat, so then they just go elsewhere and kill off another unlocked area.

Most other wintering areas already are locked and have vehicle bans during that time period.

Are the gates in the Entiat on Federal land?

[jackelope]

I think it might be time to try to hire Tim Iman (spelling?)  And I think if it was proposed as an initiative to "limit" the killing of vulnerable deer the West side tree hugger gang might support it??

Unfortunately it's not a "west side tree hugger" decision to make. It's a federal thing and Iman has nothing to do with it. Gates with no motorized access is the answer.

So lock the gates in the Entiat, so then they just go elsewhere and kill off another unlocked area. That makes some sense, but I don't see this being a longterm solution. Their tribal hunting laws need to be revised. Even then they will probably still abuse the resource and get off in tribal court. Perhaps a combination solutions is the best approach. I think the FEDS should give the state game departments the rights to catch/detain natives offending. Then they are turned over to the tribe for prosecution. Perhaps it is that way now? Not sure?

They aren't doing anything they can be prosecuted for unless they are selling meat or wasting it.

[Coastal_native]

Not trying to be argumentative, but I think the "outdated treaty" argument is always made with a lack of understanding.  The treaties have essentially been rewritten numerous times over the course of history through court decision, congressional acts, etc... and very seldom (if ever) have these "re-writes" been to the benefit of Indians.

Not all of the treaties have been redone, I believe the Yakima tribe is the only tribe that still has the original treaty intact.

I did not mean literally re-wrote.  Example:  a reservation was set aside for our exclusive use, but through subsequent legislation we don't even own our reservation in its entirety, nor do we have sole jurisdiction.  Or, a large portion of our ceded area of which we reserved the right to hunt is now the Olympic national park...which according to court rulings abrogated our treaty right. 

[huntnphool]

Not trying to be argumentative, but I think the "outdated treaty" argument is always made with a lack of understanding.  The treaties have essentially been rewritten numerous times over the course of history through court decision, congressional acts, etc... and very seldom (if ever) have these "re-writes" been to the benefit of Indians.

Not all of the treaties have been redone, I believe the Yakima tribe is the only tribe that still has the original treaty intact.

I did not mean literally re-wrote.  Example:  a reservation was set aside for our exclusive use, but through subsequent legislation we don't even own our reservation in its entirety, nor do we have sole jurisdiction.  Or, a large portion of our ceded area of which we reserved the right to hunt is now the Olympic national park...which according to court rulings abrogated our treaty right.

I understand that CN, I'm just saying that the Yakima treaty is quite different than the other tribes throughout the state.

[skywalker253]

The Indians have been coddled by our government for to long, they abuse their rights, not only hunting, but fishing, crabbing, and shrimping too.  It's time to stop feeling sorry about what happened over one hundred years ago.  The government needs to disestablish all the reservations and the Indians need to adapt to the way of living in this day and age and follow the same laws as everyone else. I see more of the fishing, crabbing, shrimping abuse as that occurs a lot in my area, granted its bit big game, its just as horrible.  How can the tribes claim they have to eat from the wild and can't afford yo go to the grocery store like the rest of us? Pretty sure these tribes have casinos that provide them with free money just for being a member of the tribe.  The Indians can say what they want, but I can drive to 7 reservations within an hour of me and see first hand their absolute waste of money and  destruction of property.  Reservations are disgusting, Indian rights should be revoked.  Get real jobs and join society.
,

I agree with alot of what you are saying, but I don't think you have a very good understanding of what the average Yakama native receives every month. My wife is enrolled. We get $115.00 per month. That is less that $1800.00 per year. I could NOT live off $1800 per week. She does not excercise her right to hunt or fish. We don't live on the res. We have 2 non-enrolled boys, which we pay for. We do not use the native healthcare. Why? One it is like going to the DMV. Two...it is a very low level of healthcare. Three....I am a Medical Sales rep and my benifits are stacked. No she does not work. Why? Because we paid $72,000 in taxes last year. I make too much money so she is better off staying at home and taking care of the kids. The Yakamas make their money on timber and coal primarly. At least that is what she tells me her tribal letters say. The one small casino they have in Toppenish is not racking in the dollars that the Emerald Qween brings in on I-5. The Puyallups get paid. Her best friend is Puyallup. She gets $2500 per month for herself, plus $1500 per child. She has 3 kids. Her parents own a ton of property and small biz in Puyallup. She is a very hard worker, despite the fact that she could sit on her ass and do nothing. Despite my negative views towards natives taking advantage of the system; I think many people have no idea how it is for the MAJORITY of the natives out there. I am not condoning anything that is going on in the ENTIAT. Just saying it is not all hearts and flowers for them. I see it from both sides, as I up a upper middle class white man and she came from the res and grew up in poverty. Back to the topic...

[skywalker253]

I think it might be time to try to hire Tim Iman (spelling?)  And I think if it was proposed as an initiative to "limit" the killing of vulnerable deer the West side tree hugger gang might support it??

Unfortunately it's not a "west side tree hugger" decision to make. It's a federal thing and Iman has nothing to do with it. Gates with no motorized access is the answer.

So lock the gates in the Entiat, so then they just go elsewhere and kill off another unlocked area. That makes some sense, but I don't see this being a longterm solution. Their tribal hunting laws need to be revised. Even then they will probably still abuse the resource and get off in tribal court. Perhaps a combination solutions is the best approach. I think the FEDS should give the state game departments the rights to catch/detain natives offending. Then they are turned over to the tribe for prosecution. Perhaps it is that way now? Not sure?

They aren't doing anything they can be prosecuted for unless they are selling meat or wasting it.

Duh....thats why I said the TRIBAL HUNTING LAWS need to be revised.

[Time Immemorial]

Its game laws and management that need to be updated not the Treaties.

Being able to kill whatever you want whenever you want is not ok no matter what. When the treaties were signed, animals were killed strictly for survival purposes. Well that is no longer the case and there has to be some sort of limit and season.

We cannot kill whatever we want whenever we want just the facts

[jackelope]

Time-
What is the limit on deer harvest during your season ??

[MountainWalk]

If I was allowed to hunt and kill deer for all the people on my farm, you bet I would.

[Curly]

Gating is likely a LOT easier solution than trying to change any Treaties.  Besides, gating would help with poachers as well, not just native Americans that abuse their system.

[boonerboy]

Its game laws and management that need to be updated not the Treaties.

Being able to kill whatever you want whenever you want is not ok no matter what. When the treaties were signed, animals were killed strictly for survival purposes. Well that is no longer the case and there has to be some sort of limit and season.

We cannot kill whatever we want whenever we want just the facts

Obviously you can because these guys were are talking about in entiat have been stopped more than once and just turned loose. Wether your hunting laws say you can or not doesn't matter if there is no enforcement. What do your laws say about when, where and how many deer u can harvest?

[huntnphool]

Gating is likely a LOT easier solution than trying to change any Treaties.  Besides, gating would help with poachers as well, not just native Americans that abuse their system.

Exactly why I started the "Lock the gates" thread, its not just indians.