Most powerfull cartridge option.

[MountainWalk]

Let's say you have a long action bolt rifle. Standard bolt face of a 30'06. What is the most powerful cartridge you could rebarrel to without altering the bolt face?

[MountainWalk]

For ease, let's not discuss wildcat's.  So far, I'm thinking 35 Whelen. Would like to think I could have more options than that.

[Gutpile]

338-06 or 35 Whelen would be my choices.

[MountainWalk]

Yes, true. But what ELSE can you do?

[MountainWalk]

Besides, I don't think you can buy 338'06 ammo at the store. Guess you could online.

[BOWHUNTER45]

35 Whelen is a mean cal . A friend of mine had one for years and I watched him roll a couple bear and elk with his ..if you like bigger cal. guns I would recommend the 35 ...plus it shoots awesome too ... I think he had a Remington model 700   

[MountainWalk]

Was a huge 338 WM fan for the longest time, still am. How does the Whelen stack up to it? I think the local gun store only has 200 grain bullets for it. Would like 250's. There such a thing as 250 gr. factory loads?

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

I would look at your reloading manuals and compare apples to apples at the data provided there. Straight facts is what i would base my decision on!

[Gutpile]

I think 35 whelen is it. I have a 350 rem mag which is balistically identical and I love it. It's a bear killin MF!! I have a 30-06 my dad gave me many years ago that someday I may rebarrel and i've been pondering this question myself. I'll probably go 338-06 because I have the 350.

As far as factory ammo, I have no idea. I havent bought factory ammo in years.

[AWS]

In factory cartridges the 9.3x62 would be the most powerful, if you could find brass the 11.2x72 Schuler/Mauser at 5300 fp of energy would be tops it is a magnum case with a rebated rim so feed rails and everything but the bolt face would have to be openned.

Wildcats a 375 Whelen Improved or something like it on the 9.3x62 case would be about tops.

[724wd]

there's always the 400 Whelen if the 35 is too wimpy for ya!

[JimmyHoffa]

I think 35 Whelen is the most powerful for what you can get brass somewhat easily.

[bobcat]

Stay with the 30-06, especially if you want the option of buying loaded ammunition. If you want a heavy bullet you can get up to 220 grain. If you hand load there is a good 240 grain bullet available.

With the right bullet the 30-06 will do anything the 338/06 and 35 Whelen will do.

[brokenvet]

The most powerful would be the 338 Scovill, however it is a wild cat.  This cartridge bridges the gap between the 338-06 and 338 win mag. 

Looking at the reloading manual they are:
338 Scovill
338-06
35Whelen
9.3X62

Unless you reload I would stay with the bottom three I listed

[brokenvet]

MidwayUSA sell them for $69 to $84.99 for a box of 20
Maybe Cabelas carries them?

Besides, I don't think you can buy 338'06 ammo at the store. Guess you could online.

[BOWHUNTER45]

The 35 Whelen is the 30-06 case necked up to a 35 caliper the only real benefit would be you being able to shoot a 250 gr bullet . The case length and the case diameter are exactly the same in an 06 and 35 whelen .. other than the neck size of course 

[yorketransport]

In factory cartridges the 9.3x62 would be the most powerful, if you could find brass the 11.2x72 Schuler/Mauser at 5300 fp of energy would be tops it is a magnum case with a rebated rim so feed rails and everything but the bolt face would have to be openned.

Wildcats a 375 Whelen Improved or something like it on the 9.3x62 case would be about tops.

This is what I'm thinking. For the combination of velocity, bullet weight, and bore diameter off of a standard .473" bolt face, the 9.3x62 will be hard to beat.

Now, does factory ammo need to be readily available, or is buying online an option?

Andrew

[700xcr]

Was a huge 338 WM fan for the longest time, still am. How does the Whelen stack up to it? I think the local gun store only has 200 grain bullets for it. Would like 250's. There such a thing as 250 gr. factory loads?

Remington Core-lokts 250gr. in the 35 Whelen. I handloaded for my TC Encore 15" handgun using 49.0grs, of IMR 3031 and a Hornady 250gr. round nose. Chronographed it at 2100fps. out of a 15" barrel. Very accurate load out of that gun but recoil was brutal!

[Biggerhammer]

It's only 40.00 bucks or so to open the bolt face, if one does so. There is vast selection of chamberings to choose from.

[MountainWalk]

Didn't realize it was that cheap.

[Biggerhammer]

Didn't realize it was that cheap.

I have had several Smith just toss it in with no charge on a full build.

[MountainWalk]

Ok, since it is so cheap to open up the bolt, whats the biggest you could go to,  while still being able to fit in a standard long action. Thinking 375 Ruger.

[Biggerhammer]

Ok, since it is so cheap to open up the bolt, whats the biggest you could go to,  while still being able to fit in a standard long action. Thinking 375 Ruger.

Oh it can get bigger than that! If your talking lets say a Remington 700 long action. The largest I have gone on a Rem700 long action is the 450 Remington Ultra Magnum. Shooting the 370gr Cutting Edge BBW#13 Non Cons with the polymere tip. Had to have the feed rails opened up and a Wyatt's center feed extended mag box installed but it feeds like glass from the mag box.







450 Ultra left/ .500 Jeffery right.

[yorketransport]

If you're willing to open up the bolt face, that changes everything!

If you still want to avoid wildcats, I think the 375 Ultra will be near the upper limits of what will fit. If you're willing to play with a wildcat I think that Biggerhammer's 450 will be pretty tough to beat. That's only because I don't think the 460 Weatherby will fit.

Andrew

[JimmyHoffa]

If you're willing to open up the bolt face, that changes everything!

The action lengths are the same and the bolt diameters are mostly the same.

In the first pic, the bolts.  The far right is a bolt from a standard long action 30-06.  Middle is magnum action for RUM series.  They have the same outside diameter on the bolts.  You can see (maybe) how much extra material they leave on 06 bolt faces.   The far left is for the weatherby mags (just for comparison, but it didn't mic out much larger).
For the lower picture, the left action is the standard long action 30-06, middle is for the RUM rifles and right is for the bigger Weatherby mags.  All are the same length.  The weatherby action has a groove (I put a red arrow) to allow for the .460 length cases--just a small adjustment to the receiver.  So you can see, that the cartridge choices open up quite a bit.

[mountainman]

Since the OP asked standard boltface, I would have to choose the .411 Hawk. 300 gr. at over 2600 fps for almost 4200' #'S. All bases off the old '06 case! Cant get any more efficient with that cases powder volume versus the smack!

[Biggerhammer]

Wouldn't bother with the standard bolt face if power is what your looking for, open it up and do it right.

[mountainman]

"Let's say you have a long action bolt rifle. Standard bolt face of a 30'06. What is the most powerful cartridge you could rebarrel to without altering the bolt face?"

[Biggerhammer]

All depends on the definition of "Powerfull" Muzzle energy powerfull or 100? 300? Yard powerfull?

Like when it comes to my 450 Ultra, it's hard to beat its energy at point blank with a 500gr bullet but a 300 Win Mag and a 180gr bullet will beat it when it comes to energy at 300 yards.

[mountainman]

My standard 300 Win loads 180 at 3000fps have 2600 ft/pnds at 200 yrds. My 10.57 Meteor has a 400 gr bullet at 2850 fps with a ft/pnd just under 5000 at 200. Bigger bullets at fast velocity carry the momentum better 100% of the time. But this is at the cost of a whole lot of powder burned. Most of your standard bolt face wildcats (Ackley, Scovill, Z-hat etc) are definetly more efficient for powder burned, and are just as capable to put large critters down as are our big magnums. But, then again, big guns are sooo much more fun!

[Biggerhammer]

I hate efficient and buy powder in bulk. 👍

[JimmyHoffa]

Some of the bigger cartridges will require long barrels to burn enough of that efficient powder to get the performance the cartridge is somewhat designed for.  Could go with something like a .458 Win Mag and keep barrel length down, find ammo and have good bullet momentum which would out do that of smaller, faster bullets with 'high energy'.

[mountainman]

Some of the bigger cartridges will require long barrels to burn enough of that efficient powder to get the performance the cartridge is somewhat designed for.  Could go with something like a .458 Win Mag and keep barrel length down, find ammo and have good bullet momentum which would out do that of smaller, faster bullets with 'high energy'.

 

[Biggerhammer]

In a sporter weight, long action Remington 700. Factory chambering, the .375 Ultra Mag is pretty much the bad ass on the block. A 260gr Accubond on top of 102+ grains of IMR 7828 @ over 3000fps, crushes stuff. I know.

[wadu1]

In factory cartridges the 9.3x62 would be the most powerful, if you could find brass the 11.2x72 Schuler/Mauser at 5300 fp of energy would be tops it is a magnum case with a rebated rim so feed rails and everything but the bolt face would have to be openned.

Wildcats a 375 Whelen Improved or something like it on the 9.3x62 case would be about tops.

I'm a fan of the 9.3X62; it has been around a long time and still grandfathered in some African Country's as a big boy. For a off the shelf round since the early 1900s you can not beat it. If you are on a hunt in the Dark Content and all your ammo is lost in transit you still can get 9.3X62 you may not get any of the hot US stuff. Elk and Bear have fallen to my 9.3X62 with one shot. Like said the 9.3X62 is a little small for a T-Rex but over kill for a daisy.
 

[mountainman]

In factory cartridges the 9.3x62 would be the most powerful, if you could find brass the 11.2x72 Schuler/Mauser at 5300 fp of energy would be tops it is a magnum case with a rebated rim so feed rails and everything but the bolt face would have to be openned.

Wildcats a 375 Whelen Improved or something like it on the 9.3x62 case would be about tops.

I'm a fan of the 9.3X62; it has been around a long time and still grandfathered in some African Country's as a big boy. For a off the shelf round since the early 1900s you can not beat it. If you are on a hunt in the Dark Content and all your ammo is lost in transit you still can get 9.3X62 you may not get any of the hot US stuff. Elk and Bear have fallen to my 9.3X62 with one shot. Like said the 9.3X62 is a little small for a T-Rex but over kill for a daisy.
 

My good buddy uses a neat old double in the 9.3X62 and has slain everything in north America and most critters on the dark continent. He swears by it!

[mountainman]

375 ultras not a bad choice either. Thinking either that or the Lazzeroni on my next trip to S. Africa. But again, my little 308 did pretty good last time! Or...? A 338 Whelen in a light bolt would be the cats meow for a lightweight, hard hittting, efficient bolt gun! Especially for plains game.  And yes, mountainwalk, the 338 Ruger is an awesome caliber also! Especially in a light M77 Alaskan. Had one a few years back. Only pushed several boxes of factory thru it, but was eerily accurate!

[MountainWalk]

That 450-375UM seems like a blast!

All the wildcats seem like fun, but I need to be able to just buy ammunition. Even if I have to get it from cabela's. No credit card, so no online shopping. As for power, what I'm after is a heavy(250-300) slug and three hundred yard capability. I'd like to, if I can scrape together the jack to do it, to rebarrel it with a 20-22 inch tube. Thanks for the help. I'm kinda entertaining going back to the good old 338WM. I've still got good nosler handloads for it, I know the cartridge and I'm a firm believer in it, and ammo isn't too pricey. Still thinking about the 375 Ruger.  Anyone know much about the 358 STA?  Would it fit a standard length action?

[Biggerhammer]

The .358 is based on the 8mm Magnum case, yes it will work just fine on a long action. I owned a Rem700 8mm Magnum years ago but since the introduction of the Ultra Magnum line, it was no longer needed. The 358 STA is the 8mm Magnum necked up. With the powder capacity of the 358 STA and the majority of the powders used for reloading it. You would be selling the chambering a little short by going with your above mentioned barrel length.

[MountainWalk]

But out to 300, it prolly would't make much difference, would it Biggerhammer?

You would be selling the chambering a little short by going with your above mentioned barrel length.

[MountainWalk]

Reason for the short tube is packability and ease of moving around in the brush.  I'm not totally against the idea of a 458 either.... I know no elk alive needs that much hardware, but I really LOVE shooting the stiffer stuff.

[MountainWalk]

Update-

Going with 338 wm. Been looking at the Shaw barrels. A good barrel? How much should you expect to pay for a rebarrel job?

[mountainman]

Excellent choice Mountain! Keep us posted!

[Bwana Bob]

I had a 338/06 built in 1990 on a Ruger tang safety action, It sports a Douglas 22in barrel and a Bell& Carlson stock that has been glass bedded. I had it throat ed for the 225gr Hornaday bullet to just fit in the mag. I really saw no use in using a 250gr bullet in the 06 case, although it may be a good bullet in the dark timber. It shoots well under and inch even with the old style Barnes 200gr bullet, which is my main bullet for large game.
Its been to African 2 times where its taken 10 of the large African antelope, all being as large as an elk or larger, an eland.
It has accounted for a moose, four elk, two deer and 7 or 8 reindeer in AK. Its killing effect on game far exceeds its ballistics on paper.
I get 2820fps with those 200gr Barnes X's. My furthest shot has been 275 yd on a reindeer bull.
Its recoil is on par with a 300 win mag but much less than a 338 win mag , especially a light weight one. I love mine and will never sell it.
While this is not the most powerfull option, it's a good simple one, and an easy cartridge to load for. 

[yorketransport]

Update-

Going with 338 wm. Been looking at the Shaw barrels. A good barrel? How much should you expect to pay for a rebarrel job?

Good choice! I had Shaw put a 338-06 barrel on a Mauser 98 action for me years ago. Shaw may not make a match grade barrel, but my gun shot at least 1 MOA with the 225gr Partition, so that was perfect for a hunting rifle. Sold to a guy here on the forum a few years ago and he's still happy with it as well. I think it cost about $350 total to have them install the barrel.

Andrew

[wheels]

i shot 30-338 or 338-06 for a couble of years great cartridge shot first deer with it but maybe is was jst mine i started with a model 710 remington 30-06  last year it started not being able to pulls shell out after firing the when sighting in this year the bottom of the cases would be blown off