Death of Alpha Wolf Sparks Renewed Concern over Hunting

[JLS]

Yes, I agree it is not a good thing for game management.  Unfortunately, hunters will foot the largest portion of the bill for wolves.

I was merely pointing out that wolves have had a beneficial impact within the park whether one wants to admit it or not.  I'm not saying I like them or anyone else should either.  But, to say the park is dying because of wolves is a rather misinformed statement.

[bearpaw]

To be precise it should be stated this way:  The parks's elk and moose are dieing because of wolves!

[mdbuck5x5]

So the elk would summer in the park and winter at the edge of the park/out of the park in the Yellowstone Valley.  The only way Montanans could put a dent in the numbers was to shoot them in January and February when they came out of the park for lower winter range.  There actually is quantifiable range data to show the improvements inside the park, but I'll let you look for them if you wish.  I am guessing you don't want to see it and that's fine.

Actually I've read quite a bit about this topic thank you very much. I know about the theory of Trophic Cascade and its affect on the park. Your saying that wolves have had a positive affect on the park as a whole but what I'm saying is they are devasting the elk herds. If not for hunting wolves outside of the park in recent years the numbers of elk left in the park might be very much lower than they are right now. And then when all the elk are gone what will the wolves do then? Turn their attention to other game and deplete them.

[JLS]

I am guessing that the number of wolves killed around the perimeter of the park has a very negligible affect on the number of wolves inside the park. 

[mdbuck5x5]

I am guessing that the number of wolves killed around the perimeter of the park has a very negligible affect on the number of wolves inside the park.

  I wouldn't be so sure about that!

[bearpaw]

I am guessing that the number of wolves killed around the perimeter of the park has a very negligible affect on the number of wolves inside the park.

  I wouldn't be so sure about that!

That's right, because the park wolves are moving out of the park more often and even staying out of the park for extended periods hunting seasons have had a big impact on park wolves, that is why the MFWP Commission shut down wolf hunting in areas near the park, because the hunting season was having a big impact on park wolves. However, a judge reopened the season.

[JLS]

I am guessing that the number of wolves killed around the perimeter of the park has a very negligible affect on the number of wolves inside the park.

  I wouldn't be so sure about that!

That's right, because the park wolves are moving out of the park more often and even staying out of the park for extended periods hunting seasons have had a big impact on park wolves, that is why the MFWP Commission shut down wolf hunting in areas near the park, because the hunting season was having a big impact on park wolves. However, a judge reopened the season.

They shut the season down as a knee jerk reaction to the collared female that was shot in WY.  The number of wolves was not over any established quota, nor was it endangering a population.  The commissioners even acknowledged that it was a political decision.

[bearpaw]

agreed

[mdbuck5x5]

All I'm trying to say is that the wolves are destroying the parks elk herds to the point where there isn't gonna be very many left. They have mismanaged the wolves and the elk, deer, moose and other ungulates are paying for it. I mean its documented they have 22 kills per wolf annually. I don't know the exact number of wolves in the park but lets just say if theres 50 thats 1100 kills per year. And the impact goes deeper than that. What these wolve lovers and activists don't talk about is the elk calving rates. According to the data they are pretty low. The stress and exhaution that the wolves exert on them has a very profound effect. Thus the wolves introduction at first MAY have helped but they are proving to be a problem and their impact is deepening!

[bearpaw]

I still maintain that wolves were not needed to reduce the elk population, the agencies could have increased permit numbers for the migrating herds to reduce elk numbers. That is how wildlife management used to work.

[mdbuck5x5]

I still maintain that wolves were not needed to reduce the elk population, the agencies could have increased permit numbers for the migrating herds to reduce elk numbers. That is how wildlife management used to work.

I wholeheartedly agree with you bearpaw!

[Special T]

I'm gona go out on a limb and guess that what JLM meant by wolves being beneficial to the park is directed a t the over grazing.

What this should show is that if we want to maximize the amount of benefit from a resource they need management. If left to "balance itself out" it will, at a much lower level with a much lower level of benefit.

[bearpaw]

The over grazing was claimed to be caused by too many elk.

[Scottystyle]

I like how the wolf killed 15 miles from Yellowstone was "one of 5 killed in Yellowstione Park"...

Good catch!! I saw that too, and my first reaction was " WTF? A$$@&()s!!! ". It was harvested legally outside the park... Not somebody hunting in the park.

[JLS]

I'm gona go out on a limb and guess that what JLM meant by wolves being beneficial to the park is directed a t the over grazing.

What this should show is that if we want to maximize the amount of benefit from a resource they need management. If left to "balance itself out" it will, at a much lower level with a much lower level of benefit.

Yes, that was my main point about wolves being beneficial.  And yes, I'll certainly agree that wolves have put a huge dent in Yellowstone elk numbers.  No one can deny that.  Yes, calf rates are atrociously low.  The number of wolves that the park will be able to sustain in the future will likely decrease. 

I would wager that if you compared the northern Yellowstone range now versus that 20 years ago, you'd see a marked improvement.  If you could care less, that's fine.  I don't think that my life is better because of it, I was merely pointing out that whether you want to admit it or not, wolves have had a beneficial impact on the park ecosystem.  It is more in balance and is healthier from a holistic standpoint, which meets with the goals of the National Park Service.