9mm vs .40 vs .45

[KFhunter]

also take into account seasons, is the bad guy wearing winter coats and leather jackets?

or shorts and tee shirt

[Mossy]

I like owning at least one of each.     For ccw, I look at capacity myself.  A .22 can take a life, so I figure 16 rounds of .45 from my FNP should suffice.  Practice and confidence goes a long way.

[high country]

I would be perfectly happy with my buckmark target. Carry a gun you know well, shoot well and functions/feeds well. Shoot straight and swift....and more importantly, first.

[coachcw]

px4 .45acp 185tsx hornady critical defence round. If I need more than that then i'm running !

[magnanimous_j]

All three are proven rounds, though I don’t much like the 40. The problem with anecdotal evidence about a certain round failing in some certain incident is that there are a million other factors at play. Maybe the first bullet went through some loose clothing and didn’t hit the body at all, or maybe it glanced off the ribcage at an angle, etc. But mostly, who is to say at that very moment, a different round would have done any differently?

[C-Money]

I bet a person in a bad situation that ran out of 45 ammo in his 8 round clip, and a man came to his aid with 16 rounds of 9mm ammo, I don't think the 45 owner is gonna complain his ally brought a little gun.

[Fishstiq]

Very well written article.  Here's what I took from it:

1.  Carry a gun.  Make sure it shoots bullets. 
2.  Shoot bullets out of the gun regularly.
3.  If a bad guy tries to kill you, shoot the bullets from your gun into the bad guy.  Bonus points for hitting the bad guy someplace important.

Did I get it all?

[Alchase]

One needs to ask their self.

What would I rather be shot with? 9mm, .40 or .45?

Then go to the other end of the spectrum and holster it up. A 9mm may expand but a .45 bullet sure isn't going to get any smaller.

I would rather start at 230grs and .451 caliber.  Than 125grs and .355 caliber.

I'd rather not be shot by any of them.

However, if I ask myself this...would I rather the bad guy be holding a 9mm, .40 or .45.... I would rather him have the .40 or .45...two reasons....  less rounds and probably slower or less accuracy from the shooter. 

Is that why the majority of Law Enforcement carry .40s? 

"Because they got conned into it.

Pistol gunsmiths and a handful of manufacturers were looking for a semi-automatic pistol round that would have the ballistics equal to the 357 magnum. They needed a rimless case to shoot through their auto-pistols. After playing with different designs, they came-up with the 10mm. . The gun was interesting but never caught-on until a guy started carrying one on the show Miami Vice.

So, the the 10mm started to catch-on.  An semi-auto pistol with 357 magnum ballistics! The FBI took the lead and determined that they would switch from their S&W model 19 and model 66 revolvers to a 10mm auto-pistol. S&W didn't want to lose their FBI contract so they started building the 10mm. There were several problems...the guns were falling apart and many agents couldn't handle the recoil.

So, the engineers at Smith & Wesson came-up with a solution.They CUT the case of the 10mm back and reduced the loadings for it. Now this would be a 10mm short, right? With less velocity and less energy. It really was a wimpy 10mm, but instead of calling it the 10mm short, they came up with a new name - the 40 S&W.

Of course the problem here is that it's really not what the FBI and law enforcement agencies really wanted in the first place. But after they proverbially got egg on their faces over adopting a new pistol cartridge AND pistol without doing any real "trials" to determine if it was any good...they just went with what was before them, the 40 S&W.

And that's the story of the 40 S&W. It was a result of a failed attempt by Smith & Wesson and the FBI to develop a super-duper auto-loading pistol round...that agents couldn't handle and that broke their guns in a short period of time.

Major law enforcement agencies usually do what the Feds do. So if it's good enough for J. Edgar Hoover's men...then by golly, it's good enough for the rest of the men and women that fight for truth, justice and the American way."

 

Actually the FBI took years of police reports on shootings, processed all those incidents, and came to the conclusion that 85% of the perpetrators shot by police with 38 cal and 9mm continued to fight. So thay looked for a round that had more "cavitation and penetration" in the wound cavity. Their determination was the 10mm fit this bill. They also instituted the Mozambique Drill (double tap) into their training at the same time.

Then three years later, using the data sinse the 10mm was issued, they found that perpetrators continued to fight, for a different reason, because only the first round found its target. The followup rounds were missing do to recoil.
So the conclusion was a round with "cavitation and panetration" close to a 10mm, with a more handleable recoil for followup shots.

This introduced the .40 cal. 

[DBHAWTHORNE]

One needs to ask their self.

What would I rather be shot with? 9mm, .40 or .45?

Then go to the other end of the spectrum and holster it up. A 9mm may expand but a .45 bullet sure isn't going to get any smaller.

I would rather start at 230grs and .451 caliber.  Than 125grs and .355 caliber.

I'd rather not be shot by any of them.

However, if I ask myself this...would I rather the bad guy be holding a 9mm, .40 or .45.... I would rather him have the .40 or .45...two reasons....  less rounds and probably slower or less accuracy from the shooter. 

Is that why the majority of Law Enforcement carry .40s? 

"Because they got conned into it.

Pistol gunsmiths and a handful of manufacturers were looking for a semi-automatic pistol round that would have the ballistics equal to the 357 magnum. They needed a rimless case to shoot through their auto-pistols. After playing with different designs, they came-up with the 10mm. . The gun was interesting but never caught-on until a guy started carrying one on the show Miami Vice.

So, the the 10mm started to catch-on.  An semi-auto pistol with 357 magnum ballistics! The FBI took the lead and determined that they would switch from their S&W model 19 and model 66 revolvers to a 10mm auto-pistol. S&W didn't want to lose their FBI contract so they started building the 10mm. There were several problems...the guns were falling apart and many agents couldn't handle the recoil.

So, the engineers at Smith & Wesson came-up with a solution.They CUT the case of the 10mm back and reduced the loadings for it. Now this would be a 10mm short, right? With less velocity and less energy. It really was a wimpy 10mm, but instead of calling it the 10mm short, they came up with a new name - the 40 S&W.

Of course the problem here is that it's really not what the FBI and law enforcement agencies really wanted in the first place. But after they proverbially got egg on their faces over adopting a new pistol cartridge AND pistol without doing any real "trials" to determine if it was any good...they just went with what was before them, the 40 S&W.

And that's the story of the 40 S&W. It was a result of a failed attempt by Smith & Wesson and the FBI to develop a super-duper auto-loading pistol round...that agents couldn't handle and that broke their guns in a short period of time.

Major law enforcement agencies usually do what the Feds do. So if it's good enough for J. Edgar Hoover's men...then by golly, it's good enough for the rest of the men and women that fight for truth, justice and the American way."

 

Actually the FBI took years of police reports on shootings, processed all those incidents, and came to the conclusion that 85% of the perpetrators shot by police with 38 cal and 9mm continued to fight. So thay looked for a round that had more "cavitation and penetration" in the wound cavity. Their determination was the 10mm fit this bill. They also instituted the Mozambique Drill (double tap) into their training at the same time.

Then three years later, using the data sinse the 10mm was issued, they found that perpetrators continued to fight, for a different reason, because only the first round found its target. The followup rounds were missing do to recoil.
So the conclusion was a round with "cavitation and panetration" close to a 10mm, with a more handleable recoil for followup shots.

This introduced the .40 cal. 

I don't disagree with you... then came modern defense ammo...and now many of them are moving back to the 9mm.

[Wacenturion]

.Friends do not let friends carry 380 s either...

So when you are walking around like this where do you carry your .45?

We could have done without that visual phool....... 

[marlin]

Just get all of them! I have .380, 9mm, 10mm, and .45 They all have their place. I dont see a need for .40 though, because I can download 10mm to .40 levels if I wanted to, but why would I? 10mm is King for sure.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Just get all of them! I have .380, 9mm, 10mm, and .45 They all have their place. I dont see a need for .40 though, because I can download 10mm to .40 levels if I wanted to, but why would I? 10mm is King for sure.

 

I like the .40 but like you... I see no need for one if you have all the rounds you mentioned.

[halfpipe88]

What is so great about the critical defense ammo? It seems to be everybody's favorite.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

What is so great about the critical defense ammo? It seems to be everybody's favorite.

I personally haven't used critical defense but I do have critical duty ammo. I mainly use Speer Gold Dot

[DoubleJ]

I like this guys stuff.  Here's his 9mm ammo tests.  The older stuff is shot into jugs with wet paper but since he's gotten some ballistic gel, he's gone back and re-tested a lot of ammo:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL727CAFF8A6C0D3BF

Here's a list of ammo calibers he has tested and some other stuff too.  I've lost hours watching these videos.

http://www.youtube.com/user/tnoutdoors9/videos?flow=grid&view=1