9mm vs .40 vs .45

[jackelope]

Sonny Crockett carrried a S&W 4506 .45acp.
Must have been Tubbs With the 10mm??

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Sonny Crockett carrried a S&W 4506 .45acp.
Must have been Tubbs With the 10mm??

Sonny used the "Bren Ten" 10mm the first two years (except for the pilot episode he used a SIG P220).... they did modify the Bren Ten to fire .45 ACP blanks....so technically..yes..it was a 45. 

[Biggerhammer]

One needs to ask their self.

What would I rather be shot with? 9mm, .40 or .45?

Then go to the other end of the spectrum and holster it up. A 9mm may expand but a .45 bullet sure isn't going to get any smaller.

I would rather start at 230grs and .451 caliber.  Than 125grs and .355 caliber.

I'd rather not be shot by any of them.

However, if I ask myself this...would I rather the bad guy be holding a 9mm, .40 or .45.... I would rather him have the .40 or .45...two reasons....  less rounds and probably slower or less accuracy from the shooter. 

It's all personal preference, I'd shoot a tango into the ground with all three. Anyone who has spent time with a handgun knows how frikn fast a mag can be changed( Measured in low single digit seconds). I prefer mass.

[300UltraMagShooter]

when times get rough, you can always get .40...  9mm and 45 are the first ones to run out. 

enough said

[GEARHEAD]

a million years ago, i was the first on scene to an undercovers involved shooting at a bar in Pierce county. a hitman was hired to kill him, probably not even knowing he was a cop, well anyways, he walked into a bar at closing, walked right up to the officer,and pulled a .375, the officer was able to draw a little faster, as he was anticipating this ,  and pressed his 9mm to the mans heart and pulled the trigger. rather than dropping, the man, shot the officer, who had to runaway for a better position and the two exchanged abit of fire. the man was killed, but it took another half dozen winchester silvertips to end it. not sure i am a fan of winchester silver tips, they tend not to expand, but it was that incident that compelled me to go to a .40

[Biggerhammer]

Phool,

You need help! but if I had to guess he would stash it in the pack or in the front with the junk.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

One needs to ask their self.

What would I rather be shot with? 9mm, .40 or .45?

Then go to the other end of the spectrum and holster it up. A 9mm may expand but a .45 bullet sure isn't going to get any smaller.

I would rather start at 230grs and .451 caliber.  Than 125grs and .355 caliber.

I'd rather not be shot by any of them.

However, if I ask myself this...would I rather the bad guy be holding a 9mm, .40 or .45.... I would rather him have the .40 or .45...two reasons....  less rounds and probably slower or less accuracy from the shooter. 

It's all personal preference, I'd shoot a tango into the ground with all three. Anyone who has spent time with a handgun knows how frikn fast a mag can be changed( Measured in low single digit seconds). I prefer mass.

I agree it's ultimately personal preference...each round has an edge at something and honestly it's probably all negligible in the ned....For me the speed/accuracy matter and the 9mm is simply faster. I know guys that are amazing shots with the .40 and .45 but they are even better shots with the 9mm..... All of it is fractions of a second but IMHO they add up in a real fire fight. It's not just the mag change that takes an extra fraction of a second but target reacquisition is a little longer.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

a million years ago, i was the first on scene to an undercovers involved shooting at a bar in Pierce county. a hitman was hired to kill him, probably not even knowing he was a cop, well anyways, he walked into a bar at closing, walked right up to the officer,and pulled a .375, the officer was able to draw a little faster, as he was anticipating this ,  and pressed his 9mm to the mans heart and pulled the trigger. rather than dropping, the man, shot the officer, who had to runaway for a better position and the two exchanged abit of fire. the man was killed, but it took another half dozen winchester silvertips to end it. not sure i am a fan of winchester silver tips, they tend not to expand, but it was that incident that compelled me to go to a .40

Yep..it was the bullet... The old winchester silver tips were known for being garbage and responsible for many people moving away from 9mm

[norsepeak]

interestingly enough just two weeks ago my cousin and were discussing this very topic and did the math on them to determine the "lethality" of each one to base a decision on.  The 9mm had a LF of 1.0 which was our baseline.  Using kinetic energy and cross sectional density we came up with the following lethality chart.

9mm=1.0
40= 1.47
45 acp= 1.51
10mm=1.88
and just for fun the 50 Cal. muzzleloader was 6.12

So purely based on how much damage one can do vs. another the 10mm is the big dog for personal protection.  Of course we run the numbers on anything to compare too.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

interestingly enough just two weeks ago my cousin and were discussing this very topic and did the math on them to determine the "lethality" of each one to base a decision on.  The 9mm had a LF of 1.0 which was our baseline.  Using kinetic energy and cross sectional density we came up with the following lethality chart.

9mm=1.0
40= 1.47
45 acp= 1.51
10mm=1.88
and just for fun the 50 Cal. muzzleloader was 6.12

So purely based on how much damage one can do vs. another the 10mm is the big dog for personal protection.  Of course we run the numbers on anything to compare too.

Love my 10mm

[hillbilli]

Everybody has personal preferences.. I've used all 3, plus what I started with, which was the .357 revolver. I'm convinced most police still use the .40 not because they got conned, but because they see it as the best compromise, close to the capacity of the 9, (actually as much as most 9's, since the most common cop gun is a g22 with 15+1). and  stopping power that is right in the middle. Many .45 fans look down on the .40, but 180gr@950 compared to the 185gr .45's doesnt make it look too bad, and 155gr bullets at the same velocity as the 9mm 115's compares pretty well too..  keep in mind a lot of people like Jeff Cooper formed their opinions in the days when the options for HP bullets werent the most reliable...
    Handgun bullets are a bit like arrows-it only matters what you actually cut or break. At handgun velocities "shock' and energy numbers dont mean anything. If you doubt me read up on how many cops hit in the vest are actually stopped by it.. Good Hollowpoints typically open from 1.5 to 2x diameter.. and the rounds I have looked at from gelatin tests and real critters vary even among the same bullet design depending on what they hit, and each bullet is different. There is overlap between a 9 that does open to x2, and a .45 that happens to only open to 1.5.  If you go with the average expansion, and or consider that once in a while even the best bullets you can buy will fail to open or barely open because of things they hit- then the larger calibers do on average cut wider holes. Just like with arrows where a broadhead just a fraction wider nicks an artery, or spinal cord- it may produce radically different results- but it also means with a center hit the results will almost always be the same.
    No round is perfect, and handguns are generally crappy at stopping folks. With good hollowpoints the differences really arent great between actual permanent cavity between 9, 40, and 45.. Whether the difference that is there is worth the trade off is up to you. I can find multiple hit failures to stop with any of them, two that come to mind are 4 rounds and 7rds- in both cases frontal torso hits from .45 acp hollowpoints (both requiring headshots to stop the fight). You can of course go online and look up cop shootings and find other cases with 9 and .40. Why?? because at pistol velocities you arent depending on shock, etc to stop him. If you had shot him in the heart with an arrow how long would you expect him to still fight? Slap a good sleeper hold on someone and you will still see them fight 4-8 seconds.. and thats with blood flow cut off to the brain. So yes, even with a "perfect" hit, or multiples, that are not CNS hits- expect him to keep firing, especially under chemical influences. If he drops at the first torso hit-consider yourself lucky, and remember that a lot of 'stops' are psychological, not physical. Every person is different, and even the same dude will react to being hurt differently when drunk, or high, or pissed off..
     I'm not a big fan of the 1911 for all day every day carry unless its an aluminum frame.. lot of weight. In a small compact gun i prefer a 9, as even in a ppk sized gun like my Kahr I can shoot rapid follow up shots.

[splitshot]

  i wonder which of these 4 calibers would do the most damage to a bullet proof vest?  with the same bullet.  mike w

[huntnphool]

Sonny Crockett carrried a S&W 4506 .45acp.
Must have been Tubbs With the 10mm??

Maybe so but Chuck Norris would still kick his a$$!

[KFhunter]

This is like arguing if a 10 lb hammer is better than a 2 lb hammer.


 without taking into account what the intended use is and who will be swinging it.

[huntnphool]

but if I had to guess he would stash it in the pack or in the front with the junk.

LMAO