9mm vs .40 vs .45

[dscubame]

You know what they say about opinions....

[DoubleJ]

My 9mm is loaded with Gold Dot 124gn +P.  Just trust them.  I would switch to the Federal HST 124gn +P if I could find it.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

My 9mm is loaded with Gold Dot 124gn +P.  Just trust them.  I would switch to the Federal HST 124gn +P if I could find it.

Yep..that is the round I primarily use

[carpsniperg2]

I did not read threw most of this but did read some and got a good laugh in. With modern ammo even the 9mm is a good choice. Something is always better then nothing! I have owned more then a couple 45's but always end up getting rid of them. Most are 1911 styles and I just don't like that style of handgun. I carry a 40 almost every day unless I mix it up a little. The 40 will do anything I ask of it. I have shot more then 1 animal that most would not dream of shooting with a 40 and it has done just fine.

[jaymark6655]

One thing I noticed in the article is he did a penatration comparision between the 9 and 45, but not the 40.

"Then I did my own research and found something amazing: A 127 grain Winchester Ranger +P+ fired into bare ballistic gelatin will impact at 1210 feet per second, penetrate 12-14 inches, and expand to right around .70 inches.  My favorite .45 ammo, Federal Hydra-shocks, will impact the same gelatin at a slower 800 feet per second, penetrate 12-14 inches and expand to right around .70 inches.  Wait a minute, it sounds like these two rounds would pretty much cut the same wound path, right?  This information supported what I’d been told by another group that conducted ammo test of pigs:  You cannot tell a decent 9mm wound path from a decent .45 wound path."

But then he makes this statement.

"If you use the right 9mm ammo, you’ll get as much tissue damage as you would from a similar .45acp.  That means my 9mm, if used correctly, will have the same stopping power as my old .40 cal."

The 40 is a whole different animal from either of those two rounds.  Just because its in between on diameter means nothing as far as performance as he seems to assume.  Fact is the 40 has a much higher velocity and therefore more energy than either of the other two rounds.  Of course the 10mm is even more powerful in comparison, but so is a 308win which wasn't considered either.

My first carry gun was a 40.  FBI didn't get dupped into picking this round, they did test same as military when making the choice to switch and since I couldn't afford to do my own research I am going to trust the guys that depend on their weapon and not just the ones that don't usually have a rifle as their primary with the pistol just being a back-up.  Sure recoil sucks, but that is what pratice is for.  Sure there are more powerful options like the 10, but I wanted to save some money on ammo and didn't care for that much ammo.  Yes you can download a 10, but back in the day reloading for a Glock was a bad idea.  Later I got a 45, 1911.  Awesome gun, accurate.  With all that weight, it seems to have no recoil.  I can shoot it faster and more accurately than my dad's Glock 17.  So if I had to choose between 9 and 45, I am would have to say 45.  If the 45 was a Glock, I am sure this probably would change since the recoil of the lighter gun would might make a difference.

Real thing that bothers me the most is his penatration test was done with two different types of ammo.  Just because they seem similar, doesn't mean they would be the same.  I would trust the results a bit more if they were of the same manufacture.  Ex Gold Dot 124 gr 9mm +P and 200 gr .45 +P

[Bean Counter]

I carry .40S&W outside the home. Most of the time I have a .38 +p  revolver backup.

9mm / .40 / .45 is a nice debate when you have the time on your hands but ultimately its better to have a .22mag than nothing at all. They will all put a bad guy down given a little time for him to bleed out.

[high country]

Soooooo, obviously the 357sig is THE end all cartridge.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

I am going to trust the guys that depend on their weapon 

So you are going back to the 9mm like many police forces are today? ...with more sure to follow

[jaymark6655]

I am going to trust the guys that depend on their weapon 

So you are going back to the 9mm like many police forces are today? ...with more sure to follow

I am not sure about this, but I don't think most police forces have done an actual study like the FBI.  They probably either use the 9 because ammo is cheaper or because the military does.  I think most swat guys are using the 40 or 45 though.

[Wacenturion]

I am going to trust the guys that depend on their weapon 

So you are going back to the 9mm like many police forces are today? ...with more sure to follow

I am not sure about this, but I don't think most police forces have done an actual study like the FBI.  They probably either use the 9 because ammo is cheaper or because the military does.  I think most swat guys are using the 40 or 45 though.

The L.A. Special Investigation Squad (SIS) uses one similar to mine....Kimber SIS .45   

[DoubleJ]

I really want a .357 mag but, I'm having trouble finding one that is 4", has 7rd capacity and in my price range.

[cohoho]

Myself, got all the calibers, but the one I carry every day at work and pleasure is a 9mm CZ-75 and a back up and sometime primary - especially in the summer -Smith & Wesson 642 laser grip .38+P...    My Express Card gun...  (Don't leave home without it!)  My Kimber has become a safe queen due to the weight and bulk....

Again as stated a couple times, if you cannot hit where you want each and every time, get a gun you can hit the target with.  Too many guys, I am sure we all have seen them at the range with their land cannons and can't hit the broad side of a barn - ever!  And I mean ever!  Their targets look like someone shot them with a very short scatter gun......  Not one grouping hits in the mix.   But man will that boom, surely scare the heck out of someone coming at you in a bad situation.   Or the flashy silver of their highly polished gun will reflect danger in the eyes of the assailant.

Too me, it is all about control and rounds effectively on target where I place them....    Get the gun that you can control and put the rds where they count.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

 Larry Vickers, Pat Rogers, and Ken Hackathorn have all switched over to 9mm. Rogers wrote an article in SWAT magazine called "Putting down the man gun" He not only stopped using the 1911 but completely left the .45 to switch over to an M&P 9mm.....he is a remarkable marksman (probably better than 99.9% of us) and even he comments on being faster and more accurate with the 9mm.... With the leaps and bounds 9mm ammunition has made over the last 20 years, it becomes very hard to justify NOT using it as a general purpose caliber. Even the non-bonded stuff like the HST is easily meeting the 12" minimal penetration limit through auto glass:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=88091

In Urey Patrick's "10mm Notes", he lays out why the FBI transitioned from the .38spl and 9mm and to the 10mm and .40S&W. He specifically stated that the FBI was very happy with the overall terminal effects of the .38spl in actual shootings, and that the 9mm was basically the same in terms of performance. What was the primary deal breaker for the FBI was the poor penetration ability of both calibers through auto glass. At that time, the .38spl JHP and the 9mm JHP simply were not able to meet the minimal 12" of penetration through auto glass. Bullet technology at the time could not over come this obstacle. Now.....almost all modern 9mm loads do well against auto glass.

If you look at independent testing from guys like Dr. Roberts it appears to do just as well as the .40S&W.

[h20hunter]

I do like the debate...kind of ford/vs chevy.

Coho pretty much summed it up. Use good ammo and all three will put the hurt on....however, you gotta put rounds where they count.

[Wazukie]

I really want a .357 mag but, I'm having trouble finding one that is 4", has 7rd capacity and in my price range.

I know a lot of people do not like Taurus but my 4"tracker is a great shooter and very reliable, as is the other two Taurus pistols I own. Two stay in the discussion though, I will say I like my .45.  10+1 and very easy to carry and conceal.