More Hounds down due to Wolves in MT.

[Bob33]

Seems like maybe hunterman would come back on here and apologize.  Maybe that's too much to expect.

  awefully quiet....

He did in a separate thread: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,115591.msg1520202.html#msg1520202

[Northway]

I have owned, bred, and hunted hundreds of hounds in multiple western states since the 70's. I have never heard of three dogs (hounds) freezing in the winter, never. We've been hound hunting in -10 to -20 temps the last few weeks and not one dog even cares about the temps. Simply put, hounds live outside year around and do not freeze to death. I find it amazing that people who know nothing of what they talk about would stoop to the level of basically calling someone a liar who has lost their dogs to wolves. But, as we all know, wolf lovers will go to any extent to promote wolves, another case in point. 

To say that "wolf lovers" will go to any extent to promote wolves is painting a broad stroke across a complicated set of folks.

I do have a question about hounds that relates specifically to WA: Knowing that wolves in some yet undetermined numbers are here to stay, if you could expand hound-hunting of cougars, would it be worth it to you knowing these kinds of conflicts would inevitably increase as a result?

Could you give us your stand on wolves ?  Are you a hunter ?  Wolf lover or both ! I will let BearPaw answer the question pointed at him ...

Compared to the level of experience the vast majority have who post here, no I am not a hunter.

I'll spare you the details and admit that you would most likely classify me as a "wolf lover".

[KFhunter]

Just use one of bearmanrics coyote howlers.   Has the same effect.    Anyone with any salt in the woods would know that coyotes stop howling once they hear a wolf.   Its not rocket science folks.

not true, at least in the instances I've seen *heard* rather.   

I suspect once the yotes are educated you might be right, but wolves are a fairly recent thing in a lot of parts and not all the yotes have it figured out.

All the times I've heard wolf howles the yotes lit up for miles.

[cougarbart]

someone asked a question about hunting cougars if you could get it back since you now theres wolfs! That is a question to ask each individual hunter!  And im guessing my response would probably be similiar to bearpaws response since he is still hound hunting in other states that have wolfs, but yes i would still hunt hounds! The  bad thing about doing it now is i would refuse to fall in love with my hounds like i usually do! They would now be only working dogs and i would try to have no sentimental attatchment to them since its not "if" you will lose dogs to wolves but when!  In idaho it is illegal to use dogs for wolves but i have heard several unverified talk of a wolf or two being shot by guys sitting at a tree with hounds treeing! I used to never carry a gun into the tree even if i was was ahead of the hunter or buddies but last 5 years im packing not for whats in the tree but for what might show up:)!

[bearpaw]

I have owned, bred, and hunted hundreds of hounds in multiple western states since the 70's. I have never heard of three dogs (hounds) freezing in the winter, never. We've been hound hunting in -10 to -20 temps the last few weeks and not one dog even cares about the temps. Simply put, hounds live outside year around and do not freeze to death. I find it amazing that people who know nothing of what they talk about would stoop to the level of basically calling someone a liar who has lost their dogs to wolves. But, as we all know, wolf lovers will go to any extent to promote wolves, another case in point. 

To say that "wolf lovers" will go to any extent to promote wolves is painting a broad stroke across a complicated set of folks.

I do have a question about hounds that relates specifically to WA: Knowing that wolves in some yet undetermined numbers are here to stay, if you could expand hound-hunting of cougars, would it be worth it to you knowing these kinds of conflicts would inevitably increase as a result?

Unless I am reading too much into your post, you seem to be saying that since there are wolves in Washington that maybe we should never run hounds? That's like saying because a woman got killed on the streets of Seattle that no women should be allowed on the streets! Seems to me the culprit isn't the innocent woman, it's the killer. Do you think we should outlaw women's presence on the streets?

We hunt our dogs in idaho every year but we try to avoid areas with fresh wolf tracks and activity just as I would avoid a known gang area at night in Seattle. I hope this answers your question.

[jackelope]

I think you're reading into a post that is just a legitimate question.
Let me rephrase what I think he is asking.

Knowing there are wolves in Washington, does that affect anyone's decision to run hounds? Expanding hound hunting in this state puts more hounds into potentially direct contact with wolves. This unfortunate incident could happen here. Does that affect anyone's decision to run hounds in wolf country?

[Michelle_Nelson]

For those looking or a News Story.

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/lion-hunter-says-wolves-killed-dogs-in-ninemile/article_3c6867c0-5e9b-11e2-a48b-0019bb2963f4.html

[Time Immemorial]

Funny how people run with somethings like this been seen this a lot on the web. Hounds killed by wolves. I'm sure hounds also get killed by cats and bears also but I dont see people sayin cats and bears are bad in washington

[Special T]

Jackalope, Yes it should, and will affect those running hounds. It will reduce recruitment of new hound hunters, and those who's necks are too stiff to buckle should take their AR's with 30 round clips hunting with them. 

[KFhunter]

Funny how people run with somethings like this been seen this a lot on the web. Hounds killed by wolves. I'm sure hounds also get killed by cats and bears also but I dont see people sayin cats and bears are bad in washington

This is true, and an accepted risk among houndsmen.  Thankfully it's very rare.   I know of one cat that killed 3 dogs.  They went back up the next day and put a whole wack of dogs from several houndsmen on the cat all at once, I don't know how many but it was a lot.  way more than they'd usually put out. 

they got the cat and it was a large tom with a puncture wound through the skull where another tom had bitten it. 

Wolves are a whole different thing, they aren't the target animal fighting back, they come in from miles off and kill every hound they can find. 

I don't really see the comparison?   A bear or cat won't come to the running hounds looking for a fight, wolves will.

[Northway]

I think you're reading into a post that is just a legitimate question.
Let me rephrase what I think he is asking.

Knowing there are wolves in Washington, does that affect anyone's decision to run hounds? Expanding hound hunting in this state puts more hounds into potentially direct contact with wolves. This unfortunate incident could happen here. Does that affect anyone's decision to run hounds in wolf country?

Yes, that was my question - thanks for the improved wording. I think the fact that he runs hounds in Idaho renders my question answered, for his part.

[JCKILLSHOT]

Man all those wolflovers comments in that news article make me sick!!

[Sitka_Blacktail]

For those looking or a News Story.

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/lion-hunter-says-wolves-killed-dogs-in-ninemile/article_3c6867c0-5e9b-11e2-a48b-0019bb2963f4.html

Thanks!

[Sitka_Blacktail]

I'm sorry this young man lost his dogs. Dogs can be like family, in fact better than family.

But it's ironic to see other hunters get so emotionally wound up over wolves killing things. It's what they do, just like dogs. In fact every argument you can use against wolves, can be used against dogs. (and cats)

These wolves aren't native to this area.  Neither are cats and dogs. All introduced by humans

Wolves spread hydatid disease. Dogs spread hydatid disease, and there will always be way more dogs than wolves.

Wolves kill wild animals. Dogs and cats kill wild animals.

Wolves kill domestic animals. Dogs kill domestic animals. In fact dogs are the second largest group of sheep killers in the US, behind coyotes.  http://www.sheep101.info/predators.html  If you take the numbers here, in 2010, 247,200 sheep were killed by predators in the USA. 51.7% by coyotes, and 22.7% or 56,114 by dogs.

Wolves (very rarely) attack humans. 2 documented deaths in over 100 years in North America. Dogs attack humans on a regular basis including an average of 26 deaths per year since 2005 just in the USA.

What you don't see is an outcry on hunting sites every time a dog kills an animal or a person. Or people freaking out about dogs spreading tapeworms. Or dogs not being native to the area. Nobody gets on HW and proclaims their disgust with dogs and demands that they be eradicated as vermin or a danger to society. The only time people get upset with dogs is when the neighbor's dog poops in your yard. 

Sure, wolves cause some problems, but those problems are blown way out of proportion to the reality. Deal with the problem ones, just like you would problem dogs. Hunt and trap them where they're legal.  But really, the fear and hyperbole are unjustified and hypocritical when compared to dogs. 

[Special T]

You can run your pack of dogs and tree a cat, and leave it there so that you can chase it again another day... don't have to kill it... Most houndsmen WERE pretty selective about what they shot. I think that i remember hearing from BP that many of his clients are not selective and will pop the 1st decent sized cat... wolves aren't selective and they don't just chase for fun.