WA Hunter Ed Legislation 4/15 Update

[buckfvr]

It is impossible to explain away the intentions of the state and wdfw.......to defend the state and wdfw on every single issue we have doesnt reflect favorably on anyone........ya cant sugar coat crooked and rotten.....

[pianoman9701]

Guys,
Don't shoot the messenger. Bigtex provides us with the DFW perspective. Let's not lose that by showing him a lack of respect. Thanks!

[buckfvr]

DFW perspective is that of which reflects the direction they are told to take the program based on decissions made by the state.  DFW could be different and better, but so long as they are lead by the likes of our governors and politicos like kevin ranker, we are going to see the downward spiral continue.  I can say, no one I know is fooled........

[pianoman9701]

DFW perspective is that of which reflects the direction they are told to take the program based on decissions made by the state.  DFW could be different and better, but so long as they are lead by the likes of our governors and politicos like kevin ranker, we are going to see the downward spiral continue.  I can say, no one I know is fooled........

I'm not disagreeing with you. I've gone round and round with them on several issues. They wish I'd never become a MH! However, we still benefit from having Bigtex and need to be stewards of that resource. His information is quite valuable here. 

[buckfvr]

DFW perspective is that of which reflects the direction they are told to take the program based on decissions made by the state.  DFW could be different and better, but so long as they are lead by the likes of our governors and politicos like kevin ranker, we are going to see the downward spiral continue.  I can say, no one I know is fooled........

I'm not disagreeing with you. I've gone round and round with them on several issues. They wish I'd never become a MH! However, we still benefit from having Bigtex and need to be stewards of that resource. His information is quite valuable here. 

I agree....Bigtex does us a valuable service here, but at times I get to thinking hes beating a dead dog trying to get us to see things as he does regarding some of the issues we are faced with today. 

[pianoman9701]

DFW perspective is that of which reflects the direction they are told to take the program based on decissions made by the state.  DFW could be different and better, but so long as they are lead by the likes of our governors and politicos like kevin ranker, we are going to see the downward spiral continue.  I can say, no one I know is fooled........

I'm not disagreeing with you. I've gone round and round with them on several issues. They wish I'd never become a MH! However, we still benefit from having Bigtex and need to be stewards of that resource. His information is quite valuable here. 

I agree....Bigtex does us a valuable service here, but at times I get to thinking hes beating a dead dog trying to get us to see things as he does regarding some of the issues we are faced with today. 

Understood.

[huntrights]

Honest, respectful dialog and debate is an excellent way for all of us to gain an understanding of different perspectives.  Sometimes it just may change our point of view.

[arees]

Bigtex,

I do appreciate your willingness to provide information and I don't mean disrespect to you.  I just disagree with most of this bill.  I would support charging a fee for classes, a non-refundable fee for not showing up or anything reasonable addressing people who sign up for the class and don't show up.

I disagree with arbitrary limits on youth hunters.  If this is for the safety of our children, there should be examples of situations that this would have helped on.  There was one incident from 2008 that was widely discussed involving bear hunters.  That hunter was 14 and therefor would not be affected by this legislation.

Can you provide a list of incidents involving youth hunters hunting alone that this legislation would address?  If this is to solve a real problem, there should be evidence of that problem.

[bigtex]

Can you provide a list of incidents involving youth hunters hunting alone that this legislation would address?  If this is to solve a real problem, there should be evidence of that problem.

WDFW does review all hunting accidents. In the past 30 years about 155 accidents have involved hunters 10-19 years old, about 160 involved those 20-29. Once you get older then 30 the numbers drop drastically. In 2011 (the last year with a full public report) the youngest involved hunter was 16.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/huntered/hunting_incidents.html

[arees]

So the report lists no incidents that regulating hunters under 14 would address.

[bigtex]

So the report lists no incidents that regulating hunters under 14 would address.

No incident occured in 2011 for someone under 15.

[lokidog]

Why does the person accompanying a young hunter have to be a licensed hunter??  This is BS!  I can understand the adult accompanying, but I would also say they should be able to be accompanied by a family member 16 or older, if under 18, I would have no problem with the family member haqving to be licensed and therefore having passed HS.

I am not ignoring your question. But in the dept's view it is a safety issue.

So the report lists no incidents that regulating hunters under 14 would address.

No incident occured in 2011 for someone under 15.

Bigtex, I regret getting a bit fiesty with you earlier and apologize. 

However, how can this be justified as a safety issue when there were no incidents in 2011, and I would bet, very few incidents of an unaccompanied juvenile under 14 in previous years.  And yes, we are all aware of the bear hunter incident, but it seems to me there is a pretty good, documented safety non-issue with these young hunters.

This reminds me very much of the "if we save one life, taking away your rights is fine" attitude of the anti-gun establishment.

Again, if the licensed hunter requirement were removed, then I would support this, begrudgingly, since there is still no documented safety issue.  The accompanying hunter should be either an adult (any adult) or a family member 16 or older that has also completed a HS course.

[bearpaw]

Hunter ED Fee
There are already a million reasons that young hunters are not getting recruited. I see this as another reason that fewer hunters will be recruited. Hunter Education should remain free for anyone. Raise the price of my license but keep hunter ed free for anyone. Everytime you add another rule or cost to involving new hunters in hunting you are going to reduce recruitment.

The issue is not so much recruitment of students to hunter education, as it is to retention.

Right now most of the hunter education classes in the state are full. Many fill up within days of registration opening. There is a shortage of classes, not students.  As you've probably noticed, some of the recent changes to the program have resulted in a loss of instructors, making the situation worse.

What is more troubling than recruitment is that a significant percentage (close to 50%) of students that pass hunter education do not purchase a hunting license the year they pass. Worse yet, within three years a majority of graduates have dropped out of hunting permanently.

If there is no fee, there will be an even larger number of individuals who sign up for classes, but don't show. We already have a problem with that; making the class free will make it worse.

I believe you are thinking in reverse. The goal should be to put as many kids through gun safety as possible. The reason classes are overfull is due to a lack of classes, a lack of instructors, a lack of WDFW to recruit instructors and make it easy to become one. Make hunting more accessible and easy for people to participate and you will also have more hunters.

I think HE should actually be taught in the schools as part of the curriculum.

I am still opposed and stand by my previous statements. There should be no charge for HE, if there is a charge it should be refundable at the end of the class or possibly valid toward purchase of a hunting license.

Any charge for students to take the class could result in fewer students. I would rather pay $1 more for my license than see students charged.

The bottle neck is in the state acquiring instructors. I contacted Olympia and volunteered to help with range day for online students, the response was more or less that I wasn't really needed and could go help some other instructors if I wanted. They did not even seem interested in acquiring another instructor, I was disgusted to say the least.

[bigtex]

The following states require some type of supervision of young hunters:

-Alabama 16 and under require licensed adult
-Arizona 14 and under with 18 yr old licensed adult
-California no big game hunting under 12
-Colorado under 16 requires 18 yr old licensed adult
-Connecticut 12-16 with a licensed adult. No more then 2 minors per adult
-Georgia under 12 requires adult supervision
-Hawaii under 15 must be accompanied by a non-hunting licensed adult
-Idaho 10-17 accompanied by licensed adult
-Iowa under 12 accompanied by licensed adult
-Louisiana under 16 with adult supervision
-Massachusetts 15-17 accompanied by person 18 or older
-Minnesota 11 or younger accompanied by parent
-Mississippi under 12 be under the direct supervision of a licensed hunter at least 21 years old
-Missouri 6-15 with immediate presence of qualified adult
-Nebraska 12 and under accompanied my licensed person over 19
-Nevada no big game hunting under 12. Under 18 wild bird or mammal hunting must be accompanied by parent
-New Hampshire under 16 accompanied by licensed adult
-New York 12-14 requires a licensed individual 21 or older. 14-16 requires individual 18 or older
-Ohio under 16 requires adult
-Oregon no hunting big game under 11
-Rhode Island 12-14 licensed adult
-South Dakota minimum hunting age of 12
-Utah under 14 accompanied by adult 21 or over
-Virginia under 12 accompanied by licensed adult
-West Virginia under 15 requires licensed adult when hunting on public land or on land of another
-Wisconsin under 10 requires licensed hunter

http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/env-res/minimum-hunting-age-statutes.aspx

[bobcat]

And when I was a kid, here in Washington, the minimum age to hunt without supervision was 14. Not sure why they ever changed it.