what has Ducks Unlimited done for you?

[DR. DUX]

 I saw one comment about DU having a highend hunting club in WA.....that is completely untrue and against policy. If that happened a lot of folks would lose their job.

this issue has been brought up numerous times in this thread and countless times abroad. so everyone is wrong? or just misinformed? I understand DU lets people run away with their impressions and imagination but this seems like something they would want to nip in the bud.

Stilly just because people say it on the internet doesn't make it true. And this one is flat out untrue. Mainly its untrue because DU doesn't own or manage any land in WA. How could it have a highend super members only club in WA without owning or managing any land. That alone should make it impossible. But again this goes against DU's policy and any staff or volunteer who engaged in something like this would be fired.

Why doesn't DU publicly nip it in the bud? Maybe because the suggestion is viewed as so ludicrous that none is seen as necessary. As I said for who and what DU can respond to publicly is pretty limited.

[DR. DUX]

And please understand this wasn't directed to or at anyone so please don't take it personally. This is just a general opinion based on years of observation. I also think its time for people of honor and integrity to step-up and explain their motivations and hopefully chip a little away at the attitudes infesting our society today.

kind of hard buy that since this that last post of yours seems to read as a completely passive aggressive attack not only on myself, but those who would question DU's motives. on this forum, as a DU representative you have just stepped on the integrity of people you have not met and potential DU members for being dubious of an organizations that you admit is flawed ,while skirting around the main point of the argument on how DU saves ducks by taking away duck hunting opportunities from the people that support them. I suspect sooner or later DU might go the way of quail unlimited in the 80's, but DU is just better at the game that quail unlimited ever was and knows to keep people happy with X amount of projects and good publicity to keep the money rolling.
to just blindly follow any organization as large and money orientated as DU without question would be the acme of foolishness, or are we at the point where we just take what we can get and accept the bad for the good and be grateful little sheople?
for you to have such an  inflammatory post - albeit passive aggressive -in the face of such an honest and frank question of "what has DU done for you"  really leaves me more dubious of the organization than before.

Dr. Dux, aside from your last post, I appreciate you stepping in and talking about DU, it was very informative. I have mentioned numerous times that there is no denying DU's contributions to waterfowl and wetlands. all potential arguing and bickering aside I just want to know why DU would be involved in a project that would eliminate public hunting opportunities in the name of salmon habitat. there is little information on this debacle, and I truly feel that the bulk of the people who use this public area have no idea they are about to lose it or that DU is /was involved even though they support this organization. sell it to me straight  and  will I renew my membership to DU and convince others to do so as well.

Stilly, first if you took my comment as passive aggressive I apologize. That wasn't my intent in the least.

But don't I have a right to my own opinion. In my opinion I do question the heart, honor, and integrity of the modern waterfowler (and this goes way beyond DU opinions). I don't think we are being motivated by the virtues of the past and feel that is a real bad direction for us to go, and we seem to go farther and farther from that past.

Hey you have the right to tell me I'm full of it......and I respect that. I'd respect it even more if you gave me some facts to show me my opinion is wrong, but I have seen so much change over the years it has soured me a bit. I'm just disappointed and would love for someone to show me otherwise. I want that opinion to be wrong.

Anyway good debate and thanks for challenging me on this stuff.

OH yeah, and I should include I'm not a DU rep in anyway shape or form. If I was I couldn't talk publicly about this stuff....unless I was the Pres....which I'm not. As I said I'm just a volunteer who has managed to attend the right meetings and asked the right questions to get some pretty good facts. I am envolved with a fair number of other waterfowl related endeavuers which has added to that knowledge but I don't represent anything but my own knowledge and experience.

[Hawgdawg]

Use  to be a big supporter. Lost and got sour grapes at a banquet. Every aution item seemed to go to the commitee members. Then I was bidding on a red ryder DU  :twocents:bb gun. Silent auction and this guy kept up n me a couple bucks. I finnaly confronted him and told him we were both interested and lets quit this cat and mouse game. What will you pay! I went 150 and he said to rich for his blood. Went back to the table and when they called last call he ran up and one up d me for 2 dollars.
I know this has nothing to do with the organization at a whole. But that charter has not got my money since. I do  miss the magazine pictures tho. my

[DR. DUX]

Finally, which one is the nightmare.....Leque. What a mess.


That one sucks because the dikes were failing and nobody had the money to fix them (as required by the federal government....which made this a mess to start with). So its the WDFW and they approach DU about an estuary conversion due to the circumstance. Again at one time you have planted fields out their that would flood and the place was highly managed but budget cuts descimated that so an estuary conversion would be an improvement over just letting the dikes fail. To boot DU secured a pretty significant commitment from a very well known company and a couple majo donors to do a fresh water project inaddition to the estuary which would be a moistsoil project and provide walk in and handicap opportunities.

Anyway to make a long story short signifcant public pressure caused the major donors to pull funding for the freshwter restoration, the dikes failed, nobody now has money to do much of anything and the whole thing is a mess. It was intended to be much better and I think the hope was DU could be brought in to try to make lemonade out of that lemon........that didn't happen.

Its still a friggin mess.

[DR. DUX]

Use  to be a big supporter. Lost and got sour grapes at a banquet. Every aution item seemed to go to the commitee members. Then I was bidding on a red ryder DU  :twocents:bb gun. Silent auction and this guy kept up n me a couple bucks. I finnaly confronted him and told him we were both interested and lets quit this cat and mouse game. What will you pay! I went 150 and he said to rich for his blood. Went back to the table and when they called last call he ran up and one up d me for 2 dollars.
I know this has nothing to do with the organization at a whole. But that charter has not got my money since. I do  miss the magazine pictures tho. my

Wish I could say I never heard that complaint before but I have heard it...lots. When I do I always remind that person that WA has 88 dinner events. There is a ton of variation event to event. Some are big dress up affairs while some are simple 25 person events. If you are unhappy with a particular chapter (and trust me I have attended enough events to find a few I didn't like either) go to a different one. Ask around and see what others in the area think of it. Here's actually a good place to use the internet. Just to give you an example. The Leavenworth event. Oh man is that one a good one to attend. Not many attendees so stuff goes on the cheaper side and if you do buy something the committee is so dang happy you came there they make you feel great. Plus if you don't live near by you can stay in Leavenworth. Being a beer and sausage guy this is as close to heaven as I ever will get.

[DR. DUX]

It didn't happen this year, it happened for a few years prior. I bought several boxes of decoys that came with the subscription and I believe a pair of waders. Can't remember the other things that came with the subscription. It was a postcard style info paper to fill out and send in with postage.

OH GEEZ, those were even worse than the IT folks. Keep in mind that those programs were actually put into place by the company sponsoring the item. In a lot of cases they had a limited time for redemption or only underwrote a certain number of memberships and once that number was met they didn't honor additional requests. Worse yet a lot of times those cards went back to the decoy company and they were supposed to forward those to Memphis. Lets just say for most of those companies forwarding those on wasn't the highest priority.

[duckmen1]

They were sent during the right date and to the right address. But I really don't care about it now but when I was younger I loved different outdoor magazines to read.

[wildweeds]

Well I for one support DU,I see what they do in the sky,I go to the banquets and have won some loot,I've gone to their sporting clays shoots and won some loot at them also,Fact is at the sequim shoot I've never come home without winning an item that was worth  at least the cost of admission not to mention blowing up some targets and having a great time.The funniest part of it all, I don't make it a point to hunt waterfowl,I hunted geese this year one day and ducks one morning.This was the first waterfowl hunting I've done in 20 years.

IMHO people should not see DU as a source for a  field to hunt in,DU should be viewed as the producer of targets to shoot at as they migrate.

[Ned]

IMHO people should not see DU as a source for a  field to hunt in,DU should be viewed as the producer of targets to shoot at as they migrate.

 
That is exactly what I have been trying to say.........thank you for understanding what most here seem to miss.

[DR. DUX]

IMHO people should not see DU as a source for a  field to hunt in,DU should be viewed as the producer of targets to shoot at as they migrate.

 
That is exactly what I have been trying to say.........thank you for understanding what most here seem to miss.

I said that in my rant as well.

There really isn't a whole lot of debate about the fact that DU is by far the best way to give back to the resource that we as hunters have taken something out of.

And the stuff going on in the Boreal Forest right now in partnership with PEW has such a dramatic impact on the ducks and geese that come to WA not only now but in perpetuity. Folks should really know a lot more about that but unfortunately you got to go to a State or Nation Convention or aLeadership meeting to be exposed to it and even then it doesn't get the credit and attention it deserves.

[DR. DUX]

I know of another private club that will be working with DU this summer.  They are going to make ponds and impove the waterfowl habitat on about 80+ acres.  Only problem is only a select few can hunt it.  It will make there hunting way better, so DU will help these guys limit each outting.  The other DU project that is close to this one was done 3-4 years ago.  And because of DU's matching fund the individual is able to hunt his private spot almost daily with success.
I support conservation, but not interested in funding an organization that spends our money sprucing up private clubs.  All the birds start sitting in these locations once the hunters limit out.

No event money or membership money goes to private projects in WA. So no YOUR money isn't going to it. That is a fact. In WA all the private money put up for private projects is put up by the private land holder. Typically DU makes money on this too which it turns around and puts back in the ground in breeding areas.

Is there match sometimes...yep, but that usually comes from the government in the form of programs trying to promote and protect wetlands from being devloped in to appartment complexes and strip malls. If you don't agree with that policy take it up with YOUR elected officials. Keep in mind though urban sprawl has ruined a many great hunting area and closed nearby public areas. When the govenrment gives someone money to improve their hunting land they put an easment on that property in return and prevent it from being devloped for a very long time. The other thing you may not appreciate is these grants are very targeted and just aren't given out to whoever asks. They are very targeted in who gets them and often are granted to those who provide a buffer to public land or part of larger public/private complexes. Are you really sure this is something you want gotten rid of? Go ask folks on the westside how many public properties have been closed to hunting due to urban sprawl and the lack of a buffer. Just sayin'

One other thing all of that work done on private land can be used for match for major grants like NAWCA which in the case of WA have all been done on major public hunting areas.

The little picture is seeing work done on private property but there is a much bigger picture.

[Stilly bay]

DR. DUX thanks for registering to HuntWa and responding to this thread. while I am far from ready to renew my DU membership, I found what you had to say very informative and some of it help to shed a more positive light on DU for me.
there were a handful of things in your posts I disagreed with, but really can't take too far beyond he said/she said and Im not sure that any productive answer could arise because of it.

a few things I would like to address:

Finally, which one is the nightmare.....Leque. What a mess.


That one sucks because the dikes were failing and nobody had the money to fix them (as required by the federal government....which made this a mess to start with). So its the WDFW and they approach DU about an estuary conversion due to the circumstance. Again at one time you have planted fields out their that would flood and the place was highly managed but budget cuts descimated that so an estuary conversion would be an improvement over just letting the dikes fail. To boot DU secured a pretty significant commitment from a very well known company and a couple majo donors to do a fresh water project inaddition to the estuary which would be a moistsoil project and provide walk in and handicap opportunities.

Anyway to make a long story short signifcant public pressure caused the major donors to pull funding for the freshwter restoration, the dikes failed, nobody now has money to do much of anything and the whole thing is a mess. It was intended to be much better and I think the hope was DU could be brought in to try to make lemonade out of that lemon........that didn't happen.

Its still a friggin mess.

Leque spawned the idea of this thread. its in my backyard and I have hunted it most of my life. while I doubt we will ever know the whole truth behind what I agree has become a nightmare at worse or a mess at best, I was aware of DU's involvement.
what I would like to know is if DU tried in any way shape or form  to get the state to use its federal funding for the highway 532 foritification on dike repairs? from my understanding that money wasn't ear marked for any project in particular and had to used within such a time or there were going to massive fines from the feds.  it completely escapes me why they didn't choose ( or DU didn't try and influence them) to spend that money on dike repair rather than building up the highway? it would have killed two birds with one stone since that money would have easily taken care of the dike repairs AND close to ahundred years of dike maintenance NOT TO MENTION alleviate the need for the highway to be fortified? and to top it all off leque could continue to be used by thousands of duck hunter, bird  watchers and pheasant hunters

Another thing of significance is a lot of these diked properties where diked for agricultural activities. When the farmers had them they were intensively managed properties and that sort of effort is awesome for ducks. When the state got these properties they had the money to continue to intensively manage these properties with heavy weed control and planting food plots. But over the past 2 decades budgets have been cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut and cut 15 more times after that. There is no money to to manage the properties and unmanaged fields of reed canary grass aren't good for ducks.....or anything. Thus alternative low maintenance and overhead options which maximize food sources are the direction public entities are being forced. Functional estuaries are an amazing food source for ducks and great hunting option. It beats the heck out of hunting a field of reed canary grass. Unfortunately it takes a few years (3-8) for the right types of native plants to take hold in an estuary conversion to maximize its effect but once it does its perpetual in spite of policy or funding changes.

This is what many public entities see as their only option to maintain huntable duck numbers and opportunities in Western WA. DU isn't telling them to do this. They are asking DU to help them convert these properties to save hunting opportunities for perpetuity. But again this ain't DU's call, its the WDFW and USFW who are doing this on their lands because they have no other option.

It would seem like a program similar to a barley for birds would benefit the ducks more in these situations. when you convert a field with a food source to an estuary it will only attract a fraction of the birds it did. not only that you shut it off to the hunters who cannot afford boats or who chose not to use boats.

and here is where I remain suspicious of DU's motives. if you restore a field to an estuary, you have the support of many groups and individuals that do not hunt or may not even approve of hunting, not to mention the duck hunters who already support you. and support means money.

if you save a field just for hunters to use to kill ducks you lose the support and potential support from investors that do not approve of hunting.  the former seems like a winning choice for DU over the latter. not to mention they get the publicity of restoring a wetland over improving a killing field.


granted this is one of those "he said she said" things that I doubt could ever get settled in this forum, but I thought I would get it out there.

 I saw one comment about DU having a highend hunting club in WA.....that is completely untrue and against policy. If that happened a lot of folks would lose their job.

this issue has been brought up numerous times in this thread and countless times abroad. so everyone is wrong? or just misinformed? I understand DU lets people run away with their impressions and imagination but this seems like something they would want to nip in the bud.

Stilly just because people say it on the internet doesn't make it true. And this one is flat out untrue.

I figured this out a while ago, but like I have said I have heard this not only on the net but while making small talk with other duck hunters. do I believe it as gospel? no. But when member as well informed and serious about duck hunting as H20fowler brings it up, we should sit up and take notice. there has to be a ring of truth there somewhere. at worst I would take his word over yours with all do respect. maybe he will chime in an elaborate if he hasn't totally lost interest in this thread... not enough fighting to keep folks attention, duck hunting forums are like NASCAR that way.

[DR. DUX]

Again those are all really good questions.

First Leque, understand that everyone wanted the dikes maintained at Leque. But the problem was the cost it would take to maintin those to what is the minimal federal standard was ridiculously and nobody had that money. Next ridiculous issue, yes it was brought up about the cost for highway infrastructure improvements but this is the joy of our bureaucracy. Highway funds could only be used on highways and the dike fortification was deemed to be beyond the scope of that funding. It get an exemption it would take action and an act of congress through federal appropriations to change this. A snowball has a better chance in hell than this would. There was no political support for this so Leque was stuck. What there was available was SRF money and federal highway funding to cover  this. Was this the best option...no but unfortunately the only option and to boot an attempt was made to not only make a functional estuary but a freshwater low maintenance option but that fell apart.

About trying to support from the non-hunter....no. 92% of the donations (this includes cooperate) come from folks who identify themselves as hunter or have hunted waterfowl in the past. Why would DU risk alienating 92% of its donors placating the 8%? That's just one of those internet rumors that seems to get a lot of traction but when you consider the facts really doesn't make a lot of sense. Now to say there are initiatives within public policy that impact DU's ability do projects and access federal and state money is very true. For example in WA state duck stamp money can only be used to increase public hunting opportunities in WA. Therefore for DU to do a project with duck stamp funds it has to increase public hunting opportunities.

Public policy has dramatic impacts in how habitat resoration is done. We as hunters need to become more educated on have a stronger voice in this area. Afterall the chairman of Natural Resources (Doc Hastings) is in WA. I have held and host fundraising events for Doc's campaign specifically to raise awareness of how concerned waterfowlers are with the public policy which seems to not consider us and the total economic impact and economy waterfowling has on this state and in particular his district.



Second, Barley for Birds, the USFW program that was designed to fund the planting of cereal crops to prevent erosion and increase water quality, as a side benefit it was hoped the farmers might see benefit to waterfowl and recognize new income opportunities and engage in those after the program ended. To make a long story short....it failed. Once the funding ended none of the farmers recognized enough value to do it on their own. Since it failed and with the numerous budget cuts and those yet to come I doubt you will ever see a program like it.

Which brings us to estuary conversion. So the state has lots of food plot fields which they don't have the funding to plant and no farmer is interested to sharecrop. So what should they do with them. Leave them as a mound of dirt or field of reed canary grass or convert them to something that is functional and provide food sources and waterowling opportunities in perpetuity no matter what happens to funding. There are a ton of other issues influencing this but waterfowl funding in the future is in real jeopardy and it ain't going to get better for decades with the way things are going. With that being the case what is the WDFW and USFW real options?


Again great questions and don't be afraid to ask. I have a few personal opinions and ideas I'd love to toss around about how to help our waterfowling future in WA. I have come to the conclusion that there aren't any easy answers and this or the next generation will face some tough questions which may make or break waterfowling...particularly in W WA in the future. I hope we have the ability and desire to face it.

[Goldeneye]

I've been pretty quiet on the subject so far.  I will offer a little perspective from my knothole.  One thing that I see DU as is a organization that is doing what it can to ensure there are birds available for future generations.  DU is a conservation organization first and foremost.  Yes, some things that take place don't necessarily provide you land to hunt on or don't work out as planned.  No one person or organization is perfect.  They work to provide habitat for the birds for future generations to enjoy.

It is up to you to locate an area for hunting.  It's not that difficult if your willing to work a little bit.  I hunt entirely on public ground on the west side.  Yes there are days where I made the wrong choice and don't get a limit, but the opportunity is there if you look for it.

Here is a picture of a plaque at one restoration project that I helped fund .  This refuge will be around for future generations to enjoy and the good that it provides to the birds is secure.

[singleshot12]

DUX, You seem to be very well informed on things, glad you joined , this thread has been very educational and enlightening