Bad news for duck hunting

[AspenBud]

http://www.nola.com/outdoors/index.ssf/2013/02/long-feared_decline_in_duck_po.html

[scotty1969]

excellent read thanks for the post

[h2ofowlr]

Good read.  I wonder which flyways will see the largest hit.  My guess is central flyway.  It would be interesting to find out.  I know we bagged a lot of young birds this season.

[thatkidwho]

This is a tough problem. I want to see farmers farm but I also would like habitat conservation. If all it would take is 2% of the defense budget to balance this problem I say close down some foreign bases.

[JLS]

It's ironic how much ethanol is pushed, despite the fact that it's carbon footprint is less than friendly.

[BOWHUNTER45]

that was a good link right their now  Some good info on turkey hunting too ... just have to love how the east coast boys are on top of all issues dealing will wildlife and with not much interference with from legislation 

[Gringo31]

Tough situation....

I don't see any real fixes.  I think the best "plan" would be to alter CRP payouts to areas that provide real habitat.  IMO too many areas in CRP are worthless pieces of ground that don't provide any real habitat.  My favorite example is most of the horse heaven hills. 

IF the farmers got CRP-like payments for wet areas, that would allow them to personally see "value" in that piece of ground.  Today, too many look at it as their choice to feed the ducks or feed their family.   

[hdshot]

It's ironic how much ethanol is pushed, despite the fact that it's carbon footprint is less than friendly.

The climate issue is just the smoke screen to push ethanol.  It is all about the money and lots of power in the senate from the corn states to make their product more valuable.

Up to us as hunters to use non-ethanol gas and inform friends and family why our grocery bill is so expensive these days because of ethanol.  Also the government is using tax dollar subsidies towards ethanol to keep gas prices down.  So the government can get rid of these subsidies and use the money for conservation plus rest the land so the future can grow their food. 

[JLS]

It's ironic how much ethanol is pushed, despite the fact that it's carbon footprint is less than friendly.

The climate issue is just the smoke screen to push ethanol.  It is all about the money and lots of power in the senate from the corn states to make their product more valuable.

Up to us as hunters to use non-ethanol gas and inform friends and family why our grocery bill is so expensive these days because of ethanol.  Also the government is using tax dollar subsidies towards ethanol to keep gas prices down.  So the government can get rid of these subsidies and use the money for conservation plus rest the land so the future can grow their food.

You're spot on.  It pisses me off to no end that we spend tons of money subsidizing this business when we could be putting that money to other alternative fuels.

[duckkillerclyde]

But I thought we wanted all the ducks to die......

Isn't that why we kill them?   Nobody really likes the taste over beef or pork and you can't use the excuse of having to hunt ducks for meat because it is by far cheaper to buy chickens.

[Special T]

CRP was not originally a Habitat program... Its actually a program to take marginal farm ground out of production, and in the E wa area, to reduce erosion... Habitat was an added benefit.

[KopperBuck]

CRP was not originally a Habitat program... Its actually a program to take marginal farm ground out of production, and in the E wa area, to reduce erosion... Habitat was an added benefit.

Bingo.

[ShaneTyTrey]

Thanks for sharing

[Special T]

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,103878.0.html

This thread talked about CRP some, but also the Feel free to hunt program.

[AspenBud]

CRP was not originally a Habitat program... Its actually a program to take marginal farm ground out of production, and in the E wa area, to reduce erosion... Habitat was an added benefit.

Does it really matter? Lost habitat is bad no matter which way you cut it.

[KopperBuck]

CRP was not originally a Habitat program... Its actually a program to take marginal farm ground out of production, and in the E wa area, to reduce erosion... Habitat was an added benefit.

Does it really matter? Lost habitat is bad no matter which way you cut it.

Ya, it matters. It's not your habitat. It's my pasture when hay is crap, or even hay the sucker if I'm really in a pinch.

[Special T]

You should take a little look at history if you want a perspective on this. In the late 70's early 80 the same problem was discussed. Why? Because EVERY time that the US economy takes a dip commodity prices skyrocket because of the weak dollar. I remember reading how in the potholes region of the central flyway. I believe it was a DU article from that era how farmers were farming right up to the potholes edge because the crops were worth so much.
I agree with the article that Ethanol is partially to blame. It is really just a carve out to the farming interest in the Midwest. It hurts conservation and hurts our pocket book. Not to mention it doesn't really help our air anyway...
This is a cycical problem and cannto be solved by throwing more $ at it.

[KopperBuck]

Truthfully, most want to do the right thing when it comes to erosion issues. Long term if we don't make concessions it's going to come downhill on us, literally. But when commodity $ are up, it's a tough argument. And given fuel and feed prices anymore, even cow guys have paid the penalty to graze or hay.

[KopperBuck]

I guess the point I want to make is CRP is not a habitat program, it's just an auxiliary of it. There are other programs out there that target habitat specifically, whereas habitat is just a qualifier to CRP. I agree ethanol is the crap, but I don't want to see the program junked because I think it works well in our area. Maybe dis-enroll acreage from the Midwest and grant us some more here.

[DR. DUX]

CRP is very important in the Dakota's. Yes its not a habitat program but in the case of the Dakota's the marginal farm land is perfect duck producing land.

Yes throwing money at programs like these are sometimes hard to appreciate the value of the investment....well that is until the next major flooding incident occurs which is further magnified exponentially by wetlands loss. At that time that investment vs cost looks like a lot wiser one, but nobody considers that until after the fact.

For who this has the biggest effect on.....Central Flyway and Mississippi Flyway for sure and us to to a much smaller extent. Our production really gets protected by the Borrel Forest and that's why now we have a flyway specific managment plan which likely will allow the PF more liberial seasons when droughts hit the prairies.

[AspenBud]

CRP was not originally a Habitat program... Its actually a program to take marginal farm ground out of production, and in the E wa area, to reduce erosion... Habitat was an added benefit.

Does it really matter? Lost habitat is bad no matter which way you cut it.

Ya, it matters. It's not your habitat. It's my pasture when hay is crap, or even hay the sucker if I'm really in a pinch.

That's how a lot of hunting will end right there.

[KopperBuck]

How you figure?

[AspenBud]

How you figure?

At last count you can't hunt corn. Ducks that nest on farmer's land inevitably make their way to public lands eventually. Take away the habitat and they either can't nest or they're exposed to predators that they otherwise would not be.

I get the farmer's plight. It's their land, they can do what they want and who wouldn't want to make as much off corn ethanol as they could if in their position? But plowing CRP under like that sticks it to game animals and ultimately hunters who hunt them.

Who wants to hunt when there is nothing to hunt? Or at the least when game numbers are so low people just give up? The future of hunting depends a lot on having game in numbers to hunt and losing CRP does not increase those numbers nor does it sustain current numbers.

[KopperBuck]

I can't speak for the Midwest guys, you have me there. But our CRP ground over here is so marginal (for the most part) it's a fart in the wind.

Look man, I see your point, but we're not in the business of raising wildlife. I love to hunt as much as the next guy.

I just don't see how it's our responsibility to make your hunting experience more enjoyable.

[Special T]

My point would be that Ducks survived the cycle before and will again. NO ONE wants to lower limits but if that is whats necessary then so be it... A lot can change in a short period...Since CRP is a 10 year program. you might have people not renew for a few years, but as soon as prices drop back down they will re-enroll... same thing happened last time.

[AspenBud]

I just don't see how it's our responsibility to make your hunting experience more enjoyable.

Your responsibility? I don't think it is. But I do think if everyone wants birds in numbers we should focus on ways to encourage better habitat on public and privately held land. Cause the free market ain't working in its favor these days.

[DR. DUX]

Something else to consider. I know right now especially there is a lot of scrutiny of government programs (and rightfully so), but there is a huge upside to these sort of investments in especially in the PPR. Besides the land, erosion, water quality, habitat, and flood protection that these lands provide with these investments, there is a huge financial impact investing in duck producing properties. The economy that revolves around duck hunting is massive, and as hunting success goes up so does that economy. The tax revenues from that alone more than pay for the investment, but without those sort of investments there is very little incentive for farmers to preserve awesome duck producing wetlands and supporting grasslands on marginal farm land.