The absurdity of WDFW draw system

[huntingfool7]

Is there someone on the east side that wants to hunt on the wet side?

[bearpaw]

If its a distribution issue then why not just drop the whole eastside/westside elk tags? Just make it an elk tag good for the whole state like deer is.  Then run the general elk seasons on both sides of the state at the same time.  People that hunt the west side will still hunt the west side and people that hunt the east side will still hunt the east side.  Then you can put in for whatever special elk tag you want to and still be able to hunt your regular areas.

So how about this:

Statewide General Elk Tag (hunt any general season, apply for your choice of LE areas statewide)
Eliminate Spike Elk Tags
Increase Permits in 2nd year and afterward for Any Bull in Limited-Entry Areas
Continue Cow Tags as WDFW determines necessary

Yeah, I could probably go for that but it still forces us to choose an area.  Like I said before, I dont ever plan on hunting the west side,but I'd like to be able to have the option too for whatever reason.

There are general seasons on the eastside, just not the best areas in the blues, colockum, or yakima.

[bearpaw]

If we want more tags available, then we need to work on habitat increases and predator decreases.

This is a serious problem, habitat work and predator control might result in twice the available elk? 

[Dhoey07]

Is there someone on the east side that wants to hunt on the wet side?

I live in Veradale and hunt the westside every year

[JLS]

I'm kind of thinking about it too.

[Todd_ID]

If we want more tags available, then we need to work on habitat increases and predator decreases.

This is a serious problem, habitat work and predator control might result in twice the available elk? 

Twice the current number of elk is a lofty goal.  But it's not impossible.  If we put the right food and land use controls in place, then it is possible.  Neither are likely, however.  We only have so many donated man-hours available for habitat projects, and the land use is controlled by those with the law and pocketbooks behind them.  All we, as individuals, can do is support those groups who do actually "put the money to dirt" and volunteer our time for as long as we can to help future generations of hunters.  If we get a bit of the reward from the work, then that is a bonus.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Wanna improve draw odds? Only give each tag holder one pick each year, just like the old days.  You pick one permit to put in for each year, cow, quality bull, bull, spike, you decide, you only get one choice. 

Or you go to a system like we have now which only benefits the State by way of more fees collected. The only reason the State can convince people this is a good system is the PERCEIVED idea that because there are more choices, your odds are better, and preference points will eventually assure you of being drawn. But giving everybody more choices waters down your odds. You get people putting in for your favorite hunt who wouldn't normally but they have extra choices so they put in for a backup. The extra choices actually make it less likely that if you do get drawn, you will draw your first choice.

Say I don't mind hunting the regular season in unit 638 because my family has a cabin there and I like putting in for a cow tag so if I get drawn, I have a better chance of filling my freezer. In the old days maybe 100 people would use their one draw choice for say, 30 cow tags. So I had a 30% chance of being drawn, or chances were I'd be drawn every three or four years. Now with all the different draws, everybody can put in for cow tags, because they can also put in for a quality bull hunt and not have to make a choice. Not only that, but everybody gets four choices for cow hunts so more people put in for that tag as a backup choice. So now say 300 people put in for those 30 tags. Now my odds are about 10% or average a draw every ten years. Sure, I get 4 choices like everybody else, but chances are I'll be drawn for a hunt in another area that I'm not as familiar with and I don't have a nice cabin to stay in and my partners aren't around to help pack.   

And preference points, don't get me started. They are as bad as a pyramid scheme. If you're not in on the ground floor, you're at a disadvantage and the worse the odds of drawing are, the worse you're screwed if you don't have the max points possible.

[ing]

If its a distribution issue then why not just drop the whole eastside/westside elk tags? Just make it an elk tag good for the whole state like deer is.  Then run the general elk seasons on both sides of the state at the same time.  People that hunt the west side will still hunt the west side and people that hunt the east side will still hunt the east side.  Then you can put in for whatever special elk tag you want to and still be able to hunt your regular areas.

So how about this:

Statewide General Elk Tag (hunt any general season, apply for your choice of LE areas statewide)
Eliminate Spike Elk Tags
Increase Permits in 2nd year and afterward for Any Bull in Limited-Entry Areas
Continue Cow Tags as WDFW determines necessary

Yeah, I could probably go for that but it still forces us to choose an area.  Like I said before, I dont ever plan on hunting the west side,but I'd like to be able to have the option too for whatever reason.

There are general seasons on the eastside, just not the best areas in the blues, colockum, or yakima.

Gotcha

[Bullkllr]

Wanna improve draw odds? Only give each tag holder one pick each year, just like the old days.  You pick one permit to put in for each year, cow, quality bull, bull, spike, you decide, you only get one choice. 

Or you go to a system like we have now which only benefits the State by way of more fees collected. The only reason the State can convince people this is a good system is the PERCEIVED idea that because there are more choices, your odds are better, and preference points will eventually assure you of being drawn. But giving everybody more choices waters down your odds. You get people putting in for your favorite hunt who wouldn't normally but they have extra choices so they put in for a backup. The extra choices actually make it less likely that if you do get drawn, you will draw your first choice.

Say I don't mind hunting the regular season in unit 638 because my family has a cabin there and I like putting in for a cow tag so if I get drawn, I have a better chance of filling my freezer. In the old days maybe 100 people would use their one draw choice for say, 30 cow tags. So I had a 30% chance of being drawn, or chances were I'd be drawn every three or four years. Now with all the different draws, everybody can put in for cow tags, because they can also put in for a quality bull hunt and not have to make a choice. Not only that, but everybody gets four choices for cow hunts so more people put in for that tag as a backup choice. So now say 300 people put in for those 30 tags. Now my odds are about 10% or average a draw every ten years. Sure, I get 4 choices like everybody else, but chances are I'll be drawn for a hunt in another area that I'm not as familiar with and I don't have a nice cabin to stay in and my partners aren't around to help pack.   

And preference points, don't get me started. They are as bad as a pyramid scheme. If you're not in on the ground floor, you're at a disadvantage and the worse the odds of drawing are, the worse you're screwed if you don't have the max points possible.

Exactly. I heard much less pi**ing and moaning before the state went to multiple categories for each species. I knew that things were going to be scrwed up big time when this new system happened. At least with the old system, even if odds were long, you could choose the quality or be happy putting in for antlerless knowing you had a good shot every few years. Now everyone puts in for everything, and odds are screwed for the forseeable future. I think the WDFW likes it though

[Curly]

Wanna improve draw odds? Only give each tag holder one pick each year, just like the old days.  You pick one permit to put in for each year, cow, quality bull, bull, spike, you decide, you only get one choice. 

Or you go to a system like we have now which only benefits the State by way of more fees collected. The only reason the State can convince people this is a good system is the PERCEIVED idea that because there are more choices, your odds are better, and preference points will eventually assure you of being drawn. But giving everybody more choices waters down your odds. You get people putting in for your favorite hunt who wouldn't normally but they have extra choices so they put in for a backup. The extra choices actually make it less likely that if you do get drawn, you will draw your first choice.

Say I don't mind hunting the regular season in unit 638 because my family has a cabin there and I like putting in for a cow tag so if I get drawn, I have a better chance of filling my freezer. In the old days maybe 100 people would use their one draw choice for say, 30 cow tags. So I had a 30% chance of being drawn, or chances were I'd be drawn every three or four years. Now with all the different draws, everybody can put in for cow tags, because they can also put in for a quality bull hunt and not have to make a choice. Not only that, but everybody gets four choices for cow hunts so more people put in for that tag as a backup choice. So now say 300 people put in for those 30 tags. Now my odds are about 10% or average a draw every ten years. Sure, I get 4 choices like everybody else, but chances are I'll be drawn for a hunt in another area that I'm not as familiar with and I don't have a nice cabin to stay in and my partners aren't around to help pack.   

And preference points, don't get me started. They are as bad as a pyramid scheme. If you're not in on the ground floor, you're at a disadvantage and the worse the odds of drawing are, the worse you're screwed if you don't have the max points possible.

Exactly. I heard much less pi**ing and moaning before the state went to multiple categories for each species. I knew that things were going to be scrwed up big time when this new system happened. At least with the old system, even if odds were long, you could choose the quality or be happy putting in for antlerless knowing you had a good shot every few years. Now everyone puts in for everything, and odds are screwed for the forseeable future. I think the WDFW likes it though

The category system bites.  I hate it.   

[skywalker253]

Why not break the draw up into 2 groups.

Group A. (Minimium 10 points to enter) Take a percentage of special permits for each hunt choice and stick them into a Group A category. Each applicant has a random chance of gettting drawn. This way high point holders are competing with high point holders.

1) They have invested the most money into the permit system.
2) They have been waiting the longest to draw.
3) If they were awarded points from the game department, which has put them up to the top of the list; they should receive their reward before they die. If not that year, then soon after.
4) They are not forced to compeat with the lower point holders. This ensures that anyone waiting 10 seasons or longer to draw has a greater percentage of drawing. I feel like those who have been waiting or were awarded points should not have to sit back with 23 points and watch someone apply with 1 point and get drawn.
5) Perhaps by putting in a 10 point minimum to apply, it will help keep out people with 1 point who apply for a hunt they know nothing about and probably should not be applying for the hunt choice in the first place.

Group B) (9 points and below required to enter) Take remaining permits for each hunt choice and have them randomly draw like current system. Applicants with more points have a higher percentage of drawing.

1) They likely have a smaller investment into the permit system.
2) They likely have not been waiting near as long to draw.
3) They likely were NOT awarded points by the game department. If they were, then they would still be able to enter into the Group A (if they met the 10 point minimum). They would also enter into Group B.
4) They are not forced to compeat with the high point holders.

Perhaps the game department charges a small fee to the Group A applicants of $7.00 to enter into Group A.

[bobcat]

Skywalker, no thanks. I'd rather see it simplified instead of made more complicated.

[skywalker253]

Skywalker, no thanks. I'd rather see it simplified instead of made more complicated.

I don't see how taking a percentage of permits and setting them aside for high point holders is all that complicated. Everything about the system would stay the same. Just pull a percentage of hunts and reserve them for the high point holders. Not that complicated.

[huntingfool7]

Skywalker, no thanks. I'd rather see it simplified instead of made more complicated.

[GoPlayOutside]

For having over 10 points myself, I say sure....offer up 60% of the tags to those that qualify.

However, once I draw a tag....bye bye Washington.  I'll move onto to a different state and wouldn't waste my time with Washington Draws.