The absurdity of WDFW draw system

[bobcat]

I don't think it's very often that someone draws both a cow elk permit and a bull permit, but even so, I don't see the big deal. No, I don't really like the way the draw is set up now, with the different categories. I think you should only be able to apply in one category per specie. But still, if someone does draw two elk permits in the same year, oh well, that person just zeroed out their points in two categories, and probably didn't make use of one of the permits. But that's their choice. Their points, their choice. If they wanted to avoid the possibility of drawing both, they could have applied for just a point in one of the categories. The system is what it is, and you just have to learn how to use it best to your advantage.

The best part about it, like others have said, is that new hunters still have a chance of drawing special permits. Unlike states with a preference point system, where nobody but the max point holders have any chance at all.

[huntnnw]

WA has the worst system?   not even close!! Ill take WA draw than most western states..atleast you have a CHANCE!! look at UT and CO what a joke u have no chance till u get to max points..that may be 30 years now in some units..hell no..stupid..ID is the best!!

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

Yep CO is the worst for premier hunts. When we started 9 years ago the big 3 were 13-15 points. Now they are 21-23 ppoints. No way. Ill keep ours. Look at the     big 3 in oregon. Same thing. We dont have point creep. We have opportunity and that is all i ask for.

[huntnnw]

 

NV of all pt systems is the best..rest are junk! I feel bad for new hunters trying to play the game now in these western states..40 yr wait on a elk or mule deer tag in some units. Hell UT book cliffs which is considered not a tough draw was 10 pt to draw 4 years ago..now its 13 for a mediocre hunt that in 10 years will become 20+ stupid stupid!

[steeleywhopper]

I don't think it's very often that someone draws both a cow elk permit and a bull permit, but even so, I don't see the big deal. No, I don't really like the way the draw is set up now, with the different categories. I think you should only be able to apply in one category per specie. But still, if someone does draw two elk permits in the same year, oh well, that person just zeroed out their points in two categories, and probably didn't make use of one of the permits. But that's their choice. Their points, their choice. If they wanted to avoid the possibility of drawing both, they could have applied for just a point in one of the categories. The system is what it is, and you just have to learn how to use it best to your advantage.

The best part about it, like others have said, is that new hunters still have a chance of drawing special permits. Unlike states with a preference point system, where nobody but the max point holders have any chance at all.

Dont get me wrong, I love being able to have a chance at drawing every year unlike Colorado or other states. I just think that if a guy draws two Elk permits then let him fill them. Making it mandatory that you cannot fill more than one special permit is BS if you are going to allow people to draw more than one permit. I would think that it goes against WDFW's management objectives in areas with special tpermits avaliable. Otherwise fix it so that there is no possibility to draw two permits. My 2 cents and I'm still gonna shell out the $700.00 plus dollars in tags and licenses this year to hunt and fish in Washington.
 

[bucklucky]

The prolem is you do not have to put in for all categories. I buy the points so I dont burn points in the categories I dont want to draw yet. If im putting in for quality bull, I just buy a ghost point for bull permits . same with deer.

[bearpaw]

WA has the worst system?   not even close!! Ill take WA draw than most western states..atleast you have a CHANCE!! look at UT and CO what a joke u have no chance till u get to max points..that may be 30 years now in some units..hell no..stupid..ID is the best!!

I agree Idaho is best, but you are wrong about Utah. 50% of tags are random draw, 50% go to max points, for that reason I like UT the best of all states with point systems. In Utah I have 12 points, there are units that I could draw for sure and kill a 300-350 bull, but I will hold out for a top unit.

Two years ago I had a rifle hunter draw a bull elk tag in Utah's Wasatch Unit the first year he applied, I also had a hunter pull another highly sought after elk tag with 6 points a few years ago, so half the tags are really going to random applicants.   

[skywalker253]

I like the Oregon system. Why not give 90% of the tags w/ the guys with the most points?  You know going in if you have a realistic chance of drawing and you can plan accordingly. If it takes to many points (years) to draw then you put in for a easier tag. There should be no complaints if you know it is going to take 17 years (I have 17 points) to draw. I don't like the fact that I have been putting in for that many years (for all species) and every year I get a Dear John letter. Just doesn't seem to be fair when you wait that long and someone has drawn the same permit 2 or 3 times. Washington easily has the worst system.

LMAO, this idea is as bad now as it was a couple months ago at the gmac meeting.

You the man bro! Never wrong and always right! 

[Skyvalhunter]

SA

[Alan K]

Dont get me wrong, I love being able to have a chance at drawing every year unlike Colorado or other states. I just think that if a guy draws two tags then let him fill them. Making it mandatory that you cannot fill more than one tag is BS if you are going to allow people to draw more than one tag. I would think that it goes against WDFW's management objectives in areas with special tags avaliable. Otherwise fix it so that there is no possibility to draw two tags. My 2 cents and I'm still gonna shell out the $700.00 plus dollars in tags and licenses this year to hunt and fish in Washington.

That's one of the good things about our current system.  It should be pointed out too, that you're not applying for tags, you're applying for permits.  Your tag is bought over the counter, and the permits you draw allow you to use that tag during (often) different seasons and with (often) different restrictions.  Only allowing the filling of one tag despite multiple permits is supposed to act as a disincentive for people to actually apply in multiple categories. I think once enough people burn multiple categories worth of points in the same year it'll finally catch on and alleviate some of the pressure on some hunts.  I hear of several people each year who 'waste', if you want to call it that, their points in some categories. It's a gamble with any real amount of points, and just plain dumb as far as I'm concerned if you have more than 8-10 points in the categories you're applying in.

Here's my application strategy, for Washington elk.  I have 14 points in all categories I'm eligible for (15 in the 2013 draw):

Quality elk only, plus points only in every other category until I draw Quality. (Due to the increased chance of drawing multiple)

Once I draw Quality, I'll apply for both Quality and Bull both until I draw Bull, and points in everything else. If I hit the lottery and draw quality again with very few points at the same time as Bull, I wouldn't mind 'missing out' on the Bull permit.  I can still hunt it though. Remember there are trophy quality animals in every unit, just more or less depending which one you're in.

If I end up reaching 8 or so Quality points before I draw Bull I'll switch to applying for just Bull until I draw it, or putting in for only the hardest to draw Quality hunts at the same time.

As for Antlerless points, I don't really care to draw a cow tag, but I keep buying points so that some day when I have a son or daughter I can apply in a group with him or her.  Early success in a young persons hunting career is the greatest driver in getting them hooked IMO.

[huntingfool7]

Dont get me wrong, I love being able to have a chance at drawing every year unlike Colorado or other states. I just think that if a guy draws two tags then let him fill them. Making it mandatory that you cannot fill more than one tag is BS if you are going to allow people to draw more than one tag. I would think that it goes against WDFW's management objectives in areas with special tags avaliable. Otherwise fix it so that there is no possibility to draw two tags. My 2 cents and I'm still gonna shell out the $700.00 plus dollars in tags and licenses this year to hunt and fish in Washington.

That's one of the good things about our current system.  It should be pointed out too, that you're not applying for tags, you're applying for permits.  Your tag is bought over the counter, and the permits you draw allow you to use that tag during (often) different seasons and with (often) different restrictions.  Only allowing the filling of one tag despite multiple permits is supposed to act as a disincentive for people to actually apply in multiple categories. I think once enough people burn multiple categories worth of points in the same year it'll finally catch on and alleviate some of the pressure on some hunts.  I hear of several people each year who 'waste', if you want to call it that, their points in some categories. It's a gamble with any real amount of points, and just plain dumb as far as I'm concerned if you have more than 8-10 points in the categories you're applying in.

Here's my application strategy, for Washington elk.  I have 14 points in all categories I'm eligible for (15 in the 2013 draw):

Quality elk only, plus points only in every other category until I draw Quality. (Due to the increased chance of drawing multiple)

Once I draw Quality, I'll apply for both Quality and Bull both until I draw Bull, and points in everything else. If I hit the lottery and draw quality again with very few points at the same time as Bull, I wouldn't mind 'missing out' on the Bull permit.  I can still hunt it though. Remember there are trophy quality animals in every unit, just more or less depending which one you're in.

If I end up reaching 8 or so Quality points before I draw Bull I'll switch to applying for just Bull until I draw it, or putting in for only the hardest to draw Quality hunts at the same time.

As for Antlerless points, I don't really care to draw a cow tag, but I keep buying points so that some day when I have a son or daughter I can apply in a group with him or her.  Early success in a young persons hunting career is the greatest driver in getting them hooked IMO.

Alan- A man with a plan.  Nice and well thought out.

[bobcat]

  Only allowing the filling of one tag despite multiple permits is supposed to act as a disincentive for people to actually apply in multiple categories.

 

Can you imagine how much worse odds would be if we were actually drawing tags instead of just permits, where each tag was valid for one animal?   

[idahohuntr]

For the folks who were frustrated that they have a lot of points and still can't draw a good unit....here are some sobering numbers from the 2012 draw that might help you understand why:

With 17 Points in the 2012 draw your chance of getting a:

Dayton (hunt 2006) blue mtns rifle bull tag would have been 12%.
Colockum (hunt 2018) rifle bull tag would have been 2.7%
Mudflow (hunt 2041) rifle bull tag would have been 5.8%

But...you can't get em if you don't apply

[bobcat]

For the folks who were frustrated that they have a lot of points and still can't draw a good unit....here are some sobering numbers from the 2012 draw that might help you understand why:

With 17 Points in the 2012 draw your chance of getting a:

Dayton (hunt 2006) blue mtns rifle bull tag would have been 12%.
Colockum (hunt 2018) rifle bull tag would have been 2.7%
Mudflow (hunt 2041) rifle bull tag would have been 5.8%

But...you can't get em if you don't apply

Are you sure about those numbers? If so, odds are way better than I thought.

[idahohuntr]

Yes, pretty sure.  It is painstaking work....really wish WDFW would actually post draw odds like just about every other state in the West.  If I could ever find the time I would post all of these stats on a website so folks don't have to labor through hours of numbers to make informed decisions about hunt apps.