The absurdity of WDFW draw system

[skywalker253]

For the folks who were frustrated that they have a lot of points and still can't draw a good unit....here are some sobering numbers from the 2012 draw that might help you understand why:

With 17 Points in the 2012 draw your chance of getting a:

Dayton (hunt 2006) blue mtns rifle bull tag would have been 12%.
Colockum (hunt 2018) rifle bull tag would have been 2.7%
Mudflow (hunt 2041) rifle bull tag would have been 5.8%

But...you can't get em if you don't apply

Are you sure about those numbers? If so, odds are way better than I thought.

If what you posted is accurate, then maybe the draw system does need to change. No wonder we have so many hunters with max points or close to it. I don't consider 10 points much of a reward with those odds. What good is a reward, if you may never even use it. They should give hunters, who work with the game department a special permit. Let them choose what they want. Perhaps they have an individual draw with limited permits by hunt choice to ensure the permits are distributed fairly. This is the most discouraging post I have read since joining this site. I won't get my hopes up...

[huntnnw]

majority of the whiners are rifle guys...look at the number of applicants!! pick up another weapon.

[kentrek]

For the folks who were frustrated that they have a lot of points and still can't draw a good unit....here are some sobering numbers from the 2012 draw that might help you understand why:

With 17 Points in the 2012 draw your chance of getting a:

Dayton (hunt 2006) blue mtns rifle bull tag would have been 12%.
Colockum (hunt 2018) rifle bull tag would have been 2.7%
Mudflow (hunt 2041) rifle bull tag would have been 5.8%

But...you can't get em if you don't apply

Are you sure about those numbers? If so, odds are way better than I thought.

If what you posted is accurate, then maybe the draw system does need to change. No wonder we have so many hunters with max points or close to it. I don't consider 10 points much of a reward with those odds. What good is a reward, if you may never even use it. They should give hunters, who work with the game department a special permit. Let them choose what they want. Perhaps they have an individual draw with limited permits by hunt choice to ensure the permits are distributed fairly. This is the most discouraging post I have read since joining this site. I won't get my hopes up...

well i see your point..but look at these great tags as "oil tags"...once in a life time is ONCE IN A LIFE TIME..i know its not how its marketed but thats how it is..plus if your live in WA what is another 6 bucks to apply most people spend that much in one super coffe stand per day.....


your getting a 10-15k hunt for essentially nothing 

[huntnnw]

I wanna see the deer and elk go to $50 to apply...weed out the not so serious

[coachcw]

I wanna see the deer and elk go to $50 to apply...weed out the not so serious

aswell as limiting the raffle tags !

[idahohuntr]

Maybe instead of a higher fee just have a more restrictive system where you can only put in for limited categories/hunts as opposed to all of them?  Limit your choices to one for each hunt category (not 2 or 4 like we have now) or more like Idaho where you can put in for moose/sheep/goat (only one) OR you can put in for Deer and Elk.  This would dramatically improve moose/sheep/goat odds as well as deer/elk categories.  But, it would limit your hunting choices...you would have to be serious about what tags you wanted....it wouldn't be the current system where everybody applies for everything.

[Skyvalhunter]

Sure why not charge more money for applying for special permits, it would just mean more money into the general fund.

[The scout]

i agree it problably is the rifle hunters complaining,even though are general archery seasons farther and farther from the rut,and added all those rifle hunts from sept 20-25 wich are pretty much garanteed six points,atleast.and idahohuntr they would never go for that because it has nothing to do with managing animals it has to do with money and managing people and that would reduce millions of dollors.i think alot of people would agree it comes back around to the wolves when we start taking care of this problem there will be alot more animals to be had in general season areas and the not so serious hunters will not apply.to the original post if you want to give wdfw more money u can do multiseason elk apply for eastern and hunt western

[idahohuntr]

and idahohuntr they would never go for that because it has nothing to do with managing animals it has to do with money and managing people and that would reduce millions of dollors.

If revenue were a concern, let folks buy points for as many catergories as they want...but only actually enter very few hunts each year 

[Mr Mykiss]

I hope that all of you made your opinions and ideas known to WDFW during the public comment period. You've got some good ideas here!!

[loper]

One thing that none of us have brought up. Did anyone notice how many of the hunt choices for Doe tags, got moved into "second deer permits" when they went to the new system?

Of course. 

I did not like that, as it forced hunters to purchase a second deer special permit application to apply for the hunt they had been applying for in the previous category.

And in many cases allowed hunters to actually use the permit they had drawn.   
A number of times hunting deer in the Palouse my dad or I drew an antlerless tag in a unit in SE Washington but ended up taking a buck in either the general season or the late buck season (when it existed) rendering the antlerless permit useless. 

Clearly a strategic financial move by our game department.

From a pessimistic glass-half-empty perspective, perhaps. 
Another perspective is: Deer damage on winter wheat in the Palouse is a documented problem; and those tags were issued with certain harvest success percentages in mind.  Every hunter who was in the boat I described above was one more who couldn't take a doe out (which is the intent of those hunts; hunter opportunity in a damage situation). 
Some people actually do like to take two deer a year. 

I don't eat deer.  I give it away to charity after I pay to have it butchered.

Always an excellent use of game harvested. 

[skywalker253]

What difference does it make if a rifle hunter is complaining or not?
 
Rifle hunters could make the argument that the game department should cateer to the majority of their supporters, who pay their increased fee's.

Selecting a different weapon of choice is not going to fix the draw system. All that would mean; less rifle applicants are now brought over into the other weapon choice categories, thus lowering the draw odds.

Increasing the special permit fee's- I mentioned this earlier in the topic. I like the idea, but you would have to create a draw system, which works for all peoples budgets. This would stir up a lot of conterversy. You are going to have the die hard hunters, who have no problem with it, if it weeds out the not so serious applicants. Then you will have the applicants, who either cannot afford to pay or refuse to pay to apply. Those same people are in the Discovery Pass thread complaining. The last thing the majority wants is increased fee's.

Purchasing points- I don't like the idea. It would end up becoming a rich mans special permit. Even if you limited it to purchasing (Example- 5 points per year) you would end up with too many high point holders. I think it would muddy up the draw system. That is what the govenors tag and raffle tags are for. You can pay to play as much as your budget can afford.

Personally; I like our draw system. I would not mind seeing a few suttle changes made to imporve it. I was not to happy to see the draw percentages another member calculated out, based off the number of points I have. I would like to see a mild special permit fee increase (Example- $25.00) for specific hunt choices. On the condition they leave leave a certain number of permits to everyone else, who may not want or cannot afford the increase. This gives everyone an equal opprotunity to draw.

[Mr Mykiss]

Did you voice your concerns to WDFW?

[steen]

The reason for my suggestion is because I have read so many comments on here, where people are pissed off because they have a ton of points and cannot get drawn. Comments stating that max points doesn't mean *censored* in Wa, the way the draw system is setup. Some guy with 2 points randomly applies in a trophy area, which requires private land access, and he gets drawn with no knowledge of the area. In the meantime plenty of high point holders sit back for years waiting, while the permits go to waste to hunters who have no business applying for the area in the first place.

Whether you like my suggestion or not, is not the point. Nobody can deny that their have been countless posts regarding the reasons I stated above. Just read the title of this topic. Something needs to change....

I drew my second choice this year for whitetail buck and never hunted the unit.  I had been in it for other reasons but never to hunt.  My husband and I scouted it  and did our homework got lucky and harvested a respectable buck.  I would have liked to have drawn it in my first choice but discovered a fun place to hunt.  My husband will probably put in for this unit this year.  Not everyone puts in for units they don't know and not put an effort into making a good hunt out of it.  I enjoy the new system and have drawn 3 tags in the last 3 years and will draw with one point less than When I drew my elk tag this season.  It is like winning the lottery ( which I don't buy into ). I almost feel guilty drawing the three tags and my husband has only drawn one NOT!

[bobcat]

All applicants need to know; if they don't have 10 points or more then everything stays the same and their chances increase. They no longer have to compete with high point holder. Those that do have 10 or more points; they apply in Group A. Everything else stays the same and their draw chances increase.

This is not possible. Your idea is to have a separate draw for those with 10 points or more. You say it would increase their odds. But you also say those people with less than ten points would have better odds. How is that possible? If you make odds better for one group, it gets worse for the other.

This talk of giving even more of an advantage to those with high numbers of points- all it will do is make it even harder for new hunters. That's the complete opposite of what we need to do.

I dislike the un-needed categories in our system, but I don't want to see any changes. Just leave it as it is and let people get used to it. Everyone has the same chances. I see no reason to complain about any of it.