The absurdity of WDFW draw system

[elk247]

The absurdity IS the WDFW draw system ! Im good with the general seasons. I wont support the fund raiser system they have in place. Never have. The only people that need speacial hunts are youth and disabled. I am confident that I can harvest a fine game animal with scouting, skills, and hard work. Most of you guys dont want to hear this but its true. There is no lack of mule deer. There in every roadside ditch in EWa. Cougars arent over hunted, there thicker then ever. Bears too. Thats the result of taking away bait and hounds from us hunter. The draw system is a completely broken. If it was like Idaho maybe, i could get behind it. But this is where we are now. Hunters arguing with other hunters about which general season needs to go away for another to prosper. Wolves and tree huggers are the real enemy. And headlights if your a deer.

[judojudd]

I originally posted this rant and have since learned quite a bit about the drawing systems in all the western states and how they compare to WA. I used the word "absurdity" just because it does seem to me to be absurd that you could technically put in every year of your lifetime and still not get drawn for a Wenaha quality bull tag.
Now that I'm a little more educated, I'm not so down on the system overall. In fact, all this digging has made me realize that my westside OTC unit is the right place to be for success. So when all is said and done, I won't get too bent out of shape about the system and just put my work in to kill an animal where I can.

[elk247]

  I'm with ya there. Otc is good enough for me. And my unit produces year after year also. Seems like general season is overlooked by many. Animals dont magicly appear during permit hunts.

[skywalker253]

I'm with ya there. Otc is good enough for me. And my unit produces year after year also. Seems like general season is overlooked by many. Animals dont magicly appear during permit hunts.

Good point...
I agree the animals don't just appear and you still have to hunt for them. There are clearly some advantages with certain special permits. I don't think anybody will argue that point. I know I would be pretty hard pressed to find a 350 inch Rosie in thick brush during the general rifle season, versus trying to find that same calibur of bull in some of the eastern special permit hunts. I also think many people miss what makes up a special permit. There is something to be said about the experience you should expect, when drawing certain permits. I am thinking a Wenaha wilderness permit should be a much better hunting experience versus a Toutle Bull permit. I think most would agree they would both be fun hunts, but a wilderness hunt trumps just about any hunt offered. IMO

You have to place a value on the hunting experience you should expect to get when drawing a special permit. Each individual may have a different interpretation of what that value means to them.

[sakoshooter]

The absurdity IS the WDFW draw system ! Im good with the general seasons. I wont support the fund raiser system they have in place. Never have. The only people that need special hunts are youth and disabled. I am confident that I can harvest a fine game animal with scouting, skills, and hard work. Most of you guys dont want to hear this but its true. There is no lack of mule deer. There in every roadside ditch in EWa. Cougars arent over hunted, there thicker then ever. Bears too. Thats the result of taking away bait and hounds from us hunter. The draw system is a completely broken. If it was like Idaho maybe, i could get behind it. But this is where we are now. Hunters arguing with other hunters about which general season needs to go away for another to prosper. Wolves and tree huggers are the real enemy. And headlights if your a deer.

I can pretty much agree with this other than the mule deer population. It's way down because of reasons you listed already.

It's unfortunate that the WDFW uses the harvest from all the special hunts as herd control besides the main objective - money. All those animals could be available during the general seasons if they weren't killed during the special hunts and the end result would be the same herd population wise.
This whole state has turned into one big fund raising raffle between the mult-season tags and special hunts. All of this used to be just plain ol fashioned general hunting season when you could plan on certain dates with family and friends. Like Bob33 said, most hunters continue to donate to support it. I've cut my applications waaaay back the last two years and the only special tags I'm applying for are the ones I have max points in which is still doubtful if I'll ever get drawn the way they do it here. And I'll never apply for the multi-season again.

[6x6in6]

"The absurdity of WDFW draw system".

Let's think about that. No one on here appears to like it, but most everyone keeps playing the game so revenues to WDFW are up.

Absurd, or brilliant?

It's brilliant.  It's a brilliant way of guaranteeing I will be hunting out of state every year.   

[skywalker253]

The absurdity IS the WDFW draw system ! Im good with the general seasons. I wont support the fund raiser system they have in place. Never have. The only people that need special hunts are youth and disabled. I am confident that I can harvest a fine game animal with scouting, skills, and hard work. Most of you guys dont want to hear this but its true. There is no lack of mule deer. There in every roadside ditch in EWa. Cougars arent over hunted, there thicker then ever. Bears too. Thats the result of taking away bait and hounds from us hunter. The draw system is a completely broken. If it was like Idaho maybe, i could get behind it. But this is where we are now. Hunters arguing with other hunters about which general season needs to go away for another to prosper. Wolves and tree huggers are the real enemy. And headlights if your a deer.

I can pretty much agree with this other than the mule deer population. It's way down because of reasons you listed already.

It's unfortunate that the WDFW uses the harvest from all the special hunts as herd control besides the main objective - money. All those animals could be available during the general seasons if they weren't killed during the special hunts and the end result would be the same herd population wise.
This whole state has turned into one big fund raising raffle between the mult-season tags and special hunts. All of this used to be just plain ol fashioned general hunting season when you could plan on certain dates with family and friends. Like Bob33 said, most hunters continue to donate to support it. I've cut my applications waaaay back the last two years and the only special tags I'm applying for are the ones I have max points in which is still doubtful if I'll ever get drawn the way they do it here. And I'll never apply for the multi-season again.

I heard one reason why they seperate out the special permit hunts from the general season, is due to hunter safety. They want to make sure the land can sustain the number of hunters within the area. They are also trying to not over-stress the animals. A biologist told me the animals have better fair chase conditions if they are hunted steady (spread out) versus a huge influx of hunters in one area for a short period of time.

[sakoshooter]

I don't doubt a bio told you that Skywalker but I don't buy the hunter safety excuse. Even the spread out pressure: We used to have long seasons. Now we have a very short season with special hunts running thru what used to be the general season. The only difference these days is the millions of $$$ the WDFW is getting for us to enjoy the same season. I like to call it 'legalized racketeering'.

[huntnphool]

I don't doubt a bio told you that Skywalker but I don't buy the hunter safety excuse. Even the spread out pressure: We used to have long seasons. Now we have a very short season with special hunts running thru what used to be the general season. The only difference these days is the millions of $$$ the WDFW is getting for us to enjoy the same season. I like to call it 'legalized racketeering'.

+1

[actionshooter]

I don't doubt a bio told you that Skywalker but I don't buy the hunter safety excuse. Even the spread out pressure: We used to have long seasons. Now we have a very short season with special hunts running thru what used to be the general season. The only difference these days is the millions of $$$ the WDFW is getting for us to enjoy the same season. I like to call it 'legalized racketeering'.

+1

+2

[Bullkllr]

True points.
But, if we had long general seasons like we used too, we would likely soon have no mule deer.

[skywalker253]

I don't doubt a bio told you that Skywalker but I don't buy the hunter safety excuse. Even the spread out pressure: We used to have long seasons. Now we have a very short season with special hunts running thru what used to be the general season. The only difference these days is the millions of $$$ the WDFW is getting for us to enjoy the same season. I like to call it 'legalized racketeering'.

Yeah I don't know what to beleive. I just try and pick my spots when it comes to hunting and spending money with the WSDFW. I can remember the old days, when you purchased a deer tag and could pretty much hunt wherever you wanted if "no hunting" signs were not posted. The seasons were longer and many units let you shoot either sex without having to draw a special permit to do it. Now you have to really keep up on it. Like many on Hunt-Wa; I go for the experiences and memories created with my family. We like to put in for deer and elk permits as a bonus, but we have never put it for everything. For the most part I have no complaints, but I think is was pretty crappy they moved many of the good anterless deer hunts to the second deer permit category. That was a strategic move to generate more money. The rubbed me the wrong way, but I still paid it to show my support.

[huntnphool]

True points.
But, if we had long general seasons like we used too, we would likely soon have no mule deer.

I believe less of the big migrating bucks would be killed if the general season ran through October and the late permit hunts were eliminated.

[Bullkllr]

True points.
But, if we had long general seasons like we used too, we would likely soon have no mule deer.

I believe less of the big migrating bucks would be killed if the general season ran through October and the late permit hunts were eliminated.

Good point. Those permits add up to a pretty considerable number, and success rates (for modern) are pretty near 100%.

[bobcat]

Limiting choices like many are talking about will not make for much of an improvement. With the exception of doe and cow permits. But for the primo buck, bull, and OIL permits, I don't see how odds would be changed by much. Sure for the person who already limits himself to only one application per year, it would be a benefit. But for most of us, who like to apply for everything, your odds actually would go down (potentially.)

The same number of people, vying for the same number of permits, odds will not change by a simple change of the rules. The only way to REALLY increase odds, are not going to be popular. One would be a substantial increase in the cost to apply. Say $100 for each OIL app, and how about $50 for each Quality deer or elk app? I could see many people dropping out if it were that costly.

The other thing would be to have a 2 or 3 year waiting period if you draw any quality or OIL permit.