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Author Topic: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner  (Read 59682 times)

Offline Broken Arrow

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #105 on: February 26, 2013, 09:27:48 AM »
What ever folks do after the hunt and weapons are put away, could care less, as long as you can get up zero dark thirty and don't need some "hair of the dog" to prime your pump...its all good in my book. Now realize that many in my party, including myself may loose our jobs for participating or even being around certain activities, and thus our group may not wish to associate in this fashion. However with that said, do not have the interest to be the moral or camp police of those in the woods. Opens a whole can of worms in my book. What about over weight hunters, should we take them on a 6 mile hike when they ate 5 big macs on the way over. How about the guys who just got back from 3 tour 2 weeks ago and may have PTSD? The guy in camp that brings 5  half gallons. Good question from the original poster. Know your team, communicate your desires, hunt safe and have fun! 

Offline pendoreilleadventures

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #106 on: February 26, 2013, 09:43:47 AM »
Oh yeah A REAL LEGITAMATE QUESTION glad he asked the question too, It exposed all the clowns that are contributing to the moral decay of this great nation.....Sucks I even took the bait and replied.  Well heck if its legal lets just smoke it, or heck if it feels good it must be good!  Should even be a discusion on this type of nonsense..

HUNTIN4SIX you sure don't know much about the history of our country do you. Just to be clear I do not smole Pot. I have tried it but I did not like it. The only reason Pot was outlawed was because of the hemp trade.

got this from wikipedia

In 1937 in the United States, the Marihuana Tax Act was passed, and prohibited the production of hemp in addition to cannabis. The reasons that hemp was also included in this law are disputed. Several scholars have claimed that the Act was passed in order to destroy the hemp industry,[149][150][151] largely as an effort of businessmen Andrew Mellon, Randolph Hearst, and the Du Pont family.[149][151] With the invention of the decorticator, hemp became a very cheap substitute for the paper pulp that was used in the newspaper industry.[149][152] Hearst felt that this was a threat to his extensive timber holdings. Mellon, Secretary of the Treasury and the wealthiest man in America, had invested heavily in DuPont's new synthetic fiber, nylon, and considered its success to depend on its replacement of the traditional resource, hemp.[149][153][154][155][156][157][158][159] The claims that hemp could have been a successful substitute for wood pulp have been based on an incorrect government report of 1916 which concluded that hemp hurds, broken parts of the inner core of the hemp stem, were a suitable source for paper production. This has not been confirmed by later research, as hemp hurds are not reported to be a good enough substitute. Many advocates for hemp have greatly overestimated the proportion of useful cellulose in hemp hurds. In 2003, 95% of the hemp hurds in the EU were used for animal bedding, and only about 5% were used as building material.[160][161][162][163]


As for smoking when hunting that is just foolish. IF someone wants to do it after the hunt I don't see an issue with that. Now that it's legal the difference between Pot and Beer is the same a the debate about Baiting vs not Baiting it all a matter of opinion.
“Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians--except for the occasional mountain lion steak.”
― Ted Nugent

Offline h20hunter

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #107 on: February 26, 2013, 09:51:22 AM »
Eating venison feels good.....shooting bears feels good......

Awful attempt at making a point.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #108 on: February 26, 2013, 11:33:40 AM »
apex_predator87 first I want to thank you for serving our country, I'm saddened to hear of your injury which you will have to live with for the rest of your life. I want to emphasize a few points that I hope you and anyone in a similar situation should consider.

HELPING OTHERS
This forum is a place for hunters to help fellow hunters whenever possible.

PRESCRIPTION DRUGS
I think it's important that we understand apex_predator87 is using a prescription drug which has been prescribed by his doctor. A drug that is argueably no more dangerous than other prescription drugs or alcohol. However, I would hope and I assume the doctor has noted when the drug should be used and when not. I presume this would mean to not use the drug while operating heavy machinery, driving vehicles, handling dangerous weapons, etc.

OPENESS & DIPLOMACY
The fact that apex_predator87 wanted to inform a potential hunting partner before he went on a hunting trip is appreciated. Obviously, many people would be offended if they found out after starting the trip, thankyou for being upfront. However, in the future I would suggest sending a message (pm) informing potential hunting partners of your prescription so that you can avoid public controversy.

LEGALITY & IMAGE
This is a prescription drug which has been prescribed for use by a doctor in the same manner as many other prescription drugs. I presume use will occur only under safe circumstances and never immediately prior to or during hunting or shooting. There is no reason to assume this is anything other than a legal activity as long as it occurs on private or state owned lands. Bigtex has provided information indicating use of this prescription drug is not legal on federally owned or administered lands, I would heed the warning.

Lastly, please understand, this forum is not a place for pot smokers to discuss their pot smoking activities.

Regards,
H-W Management
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline turkeydancer

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #109 on: February 26, 2013, 12:05:02 PM »
 :yeah:
Way to go BP ... couldn't have put it better.

Apex -
Thanks for your service ... thanks for being open & upfront ... sorry you were hurt ... take your meds, but safely for all parties. I would volunteer to take you out, but I work for the DOD which could cost my job.
 :tup:

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #110 on: February 26, 2013, 01:08:14 PM »
PRESCRIPTION DRUGS
I think it's important that we understand apex_predator87 is using a prescription drug which has been prescribed by his doctor. A drug that is argueably no more dangerous than other prescription drugs or alcohol. However, I would hope and I assume the doctor has noted when the drug should be used and when not. I presume this would mean to not use the drug while operating heavy machinery, driving vehicles, handling dangerous weapons, etc.

In the spirit of helping, I offer this:

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2011/09/092611-atf-open-letter-to-all-ffls-marijuana-for-medicinal-purposes.pdf

If anyone is knowledgeable about a reference or source that countermands this, I'd be happy to read it.

It's important for those at risk of losing their rights and privileges to understand what is at stake.  This is not provided as a crusade against anything other than ignorance of the law. I'd hate to see someone on here bemoaning how they lost their firearm, privilege to hunt, right to self defense, a small fortune in attorney fees, and/or their freedom, because they were not aware that it remains a felony to use prescription MJ, however legal under state law, and possess a firearm.


Quote
OPEN LETTER TO ALL FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSEES
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has received a number of inquiries regarding the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes and its applicability to Federal firearms laws. The purpose of this open letter is to provide guidance on the issue and to assist you, a Federal firearms licensee, in complying with Federal firearms laws and regulations.

A number of States have passed legislation allowing under State law the use or possession of marijuana for medicinal purposes, and some of these States issue a card authorizing the holder to use or possess marijuana under State law. During a firearms transaction, a potential transferee may advise you that he or she is a user of medical marijuana, or present a medical marijuana card as identification or proof of residency.

As you know, Federal law, 18 U.S.c. § 922(g)(3), prohibits any person who is an "unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802))" from shipping, transporting, receiving or possessing firearms or ammunition. Marijuana is listed in the Controlled Substances Act as a Schedule I controlled substance, and there are no exceptions in Federal law for marijuana purportedly used for medicinal purposes, even if such use is sanctioned by State law. Further, Federal law, 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(3), makes it unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance. As provided by 27 C.F.R. § 478.11, "an inference of current use may be drawn from evidence of a recent use or possession of a controlled substance or a pattern of use or possession that reasonably covers the present time."

Therefore, any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her State has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition. Such persons should answer "yes" to question 11.e. on ATF Form 4473 (August 2008), Firearms Transaction Record, and you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to them. Further, if you are aware that the potential transferee is in possession of a card authorizing the possession and use of marijuana under State law, then you have "reasonable cause to believe" that the person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance. As such, you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to the person, even if the person answered "no" to question 11.e. on ATF Form 4473.

ETA: Denninger comments.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=216807
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 01:19:19 PM by Fl0und3rz »

Offline bearpaw

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #111 on: February 26, 2013, 01:36:23 PM »
Thanks for the info Fl0und3rz, can anyone answer a few questions that this raises?

It appears that the federal government still considers it a felony to use prescription marijuana so it is illegal for that person to own firearms or ammunition?

It also appears that it's a felony for a firearms dealer to sell firearms or amunition if they know the person uses or is a carrier of a medical marijuana card?

Is it illegal for any private party to sell firearms or ammunition to a person they know to be a carrier of a medical marijuana card?

Would another person who accompanies a person they know to be a carrier of a medical marijuana card or someone who they know smokes marijuana be guilty for knowing of this and not reporting it to a federal agent?

These are important questions that everyone should know.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #112 on: February 26, 2013, 02:29:02 PM »
Thanks for the info Fl0und3rz, can anyone answer a few questions that this raises?

It appears that the federal government still considers it a felony to use prescription marijuana so it is illegal for that person to own firearms or ammunition?

I don't know whether it is simple MJ use that qualifies as a federal felony.  What I was referring to as a risk of being charged with a federal felony was the possession of a firearm by a person who would answer, "yes" if they answered truthfully, to the question 11.e about use of controlled substances.

It also appears that it's a felony for a firearms dealer to sell firearms or amunition if they know the person uses or is a carrier of a medical marijuana card?

Is it illegal for any private party to sell firearms or ammunition to a person they know to be a carrier of a medical marijuana card?

That's my read on the first. On the second, I don't believe there to be any provision in the below quoted text to distinguish between a seller from a private collection and FFL dealer, other than the fact that the seller is not legally required to ask about an MJ card.  If they ask or already know, the quoted text makes no distinction.

Quote
Marijuana is listed in the Controlled Substances Act as a Schedule I controlled substance, and there are no exceptions in Federal law for marijuana purportedly used for medicinal purposes, even if such use is sanctioned by State law. Further, Federal law, 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(3), makes it unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance. As provided by 27 C.F.R. § 478.11, "an inference of current use may be drawn from evidence of a recent use or possession of a controlled substance or a pattern of use or possession that reasonably covers the present time."

Would another person who accompanies a person they know to be a carrier of a medical marijuana card or someone who they know smokes marijuana be guilty for knowing of this and not reporting it to a federal agent?

This is the sticky part for someone accompanying an MJ card holder or known user/possesser on a hunt with a firearm.  Simply accompanying and not reporting? Likely not, absent some affirmative duty to report.  But are you an accessory after the fact? A co-conspirator? Are you aiding and abetting? Are you, for example, allowing such a person in your tent, MJ possession, or not, or are you transporting a person capable of being arrested on federal felony charges, current MJ possession or not? Does any of this matter, when there is the possibility of an overzealous prosecutor charging you despite a low likelihood of conviction, when the stakes are so high, and when LE has a financial incentive to seize property under civil forfeiture laws to make questionable seizures and arrests? 

The answer to the last hypothetical for me is no.  It is simply not worth it.

These are important questions that everyone should know.

Agreed.  I apologize to all those who are made second class citizens by this interplay of federal and state laws (glances askance at Obama DoJ), but it cannot be wished away, and people need to know.

And posting on the internet about MJ use or med MJ card possession, especially regarding hunting with a firearm is probably not a good idea either.

Offline Evil_EdwardO

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #113 on: February 26, 2013, 02:43:33 PM »
When I bought a rifle a couple of months ago, the question was something like "Do you use drugs illegal in your state?" I thought it was interesting because they added State to the question now.

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #114 on: February 26, 2013, 03:00:18 PM »
Interesting.  April 2012 version of 4473 asks:

"Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

I have not seen one subsequent to that version.

Offline h20hunter

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #115 on: February 26, 2013, 03:04:59 PM »
Keyword being "unlawful"

Offline bearpaw

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #116 on: February 26, 2013, 03:27:57 PM »
Bigtex, can you add your thoughts on my previous questions?
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw needed) for spring bear, fall bear, bison, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, & wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered

Offline bigtex

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #117 on: February 26, 2013, 03:51:23 PM »
It appears that the federal government still considers it a felony to use prescription marijuana so it is illegal for that person to own firearms or ammunition?

It also appears that it's a felony for a firearms dealer to sell firearms or amunition if they know the person uses or is a carrier of a medical marijuana card?

Is it illegal for any private party to sell firearms or ammunition to a person they know to be a carrier of a medical marijuana card?

Would another person who accompanies a person they know to be a carrier of a medical marijuana card or someone who they know smokes marijuana be guilty for knowing of this and not reporting it to a federal agent?

"Simple" possession of marijuana is not a federal felony. The federal officers who would most likely issue these citations are the federal land management agencies (Forest Service, Park Service, etc). When you are charged for simple possession of marijuana you are charged under the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). As far as I know there aren't felonies in the CFR, but only in the US Code (USC). I believe these offenses are federal Class B Misdemeanors which carry a fine up to $5,000 and/or 6 months in jail. The way federal fines/penalties for citations work is done by each US district. WA is split into a Western and Eastern District. So the fine for an offense in W WA may be $100, but in E WA it's $125, doesn't make since but that is how it is. There are some US Districts where simple possession of marijuana is actually just a fine, I know Colorado it is $125, Southern California it is $300/400. However in W WA it is a mandatory court appearance, not sure about E WA.

One of the issues with medical marijuana, and now legalized marijuana in WA and CO have been the firearms regs. As far as I know no case has been made for someone selling a gun to a marijuana patient or now legalized user. I think it truely is one of those laws where yes it is on the books, but nobody is truely enforcing it. It is a lot easier to go after someone illegally selling medical marijuana or whatever, then a gun salesman who sold it to a marijuana patient.

Offline h20hunter

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #118 on: February 26, 2013, 03:54:21 PM »
Tex.....do you have a feeling how things would go if a warden came into camp to check licenses....say all is fine, no infractions, yet I'm enjoying a hand rolled bit of mary jane. Currently I would expect that I'm not worth the wardens time for that alone. Obviously not trying to pin you down to a blanket statement.....more a gut feeling on how you think that would go.

Offline bigtex

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Re: 420 friendly turkey hunting partner
« Reply #119 on: February 26, 2013, 03:57:08 PM »
Tex.....do you have a feeling how things would go if a warden came into camp to check licenses....say all is fine, no infractions, yet I'm enjoying a hand rolled bit of mary jane. Currently I would expect that I'm not worth the wardens time for that alone. Obviously not trying to pin you down to a blanket statement.....more a gut feeling on how you think that would go.

If it is WDFW they cannot do anything, you are not breaking state law (as long as you are 21). If it is a federal officer, such as a US Forest Service Officer they would cite you.

Interesting thing to know is that in California it is against state law to possess marijuana on federal land, there is no such law in WA.

 


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