wolf management will cost $2.3 million in 2013

[bobcat]

When I was at a WDFW Commissioner's meeting in Olympia, before the wolf plan was approved, the only people I remember getting up to talk, were wolf huggers, and their main point of contention was that 15 breeding pairs was far too low. And there were plenty of wolf huggers there. And yes, they were from Seattle, and Tacoma, if I remember correctly. This is what the WDFW has to deal with.

[bearpaw]

Of course the wolf lovers want wolves, just as long as they can put them on the eastside and not have to live with them themselves, that has been proven by Rep. Kretz.

I suppose it's sort of tough for some to justify a wolf hunt when they aren't killing your cattle or pets and you haven't seen what happens to big game herds. We're not asking for wolf management on the westside so you can rest in peace, we only want to protect our pets and livestock where the wolves are eating them.

[bobcat]

We're not asking for wolf management on the westside so you can rest in peace, we only want to protect our pets and livestock where the wolves are eating them.

That's not true. People have been saying there should be an open season on wolves. I doubt anyone disagrees with people having the right to protect their livestock and pets. I would shoot a wolf to protect my dog, legal or not. Who wouldn't?

Personally I think there should be a year around season on wolves just like there is coyotes. If I was in charge, that's how it WOULD be.

But, I don't think it's right to criticize the WDFW, as they are only doing what they are required to do by law.

[mkcj]

Skywalker & Bobcat I asked this of WDFW on there FB page and that is, Why do you think that WDFW knows so much more than Idaho, Montana and Wyoming does now that they all have stated that hunting alone will not be able to control wolf populations. Idaho started with 15 introduced wolves in '95 and '98 (I may be wrong on second year) by 2010 they had well over 1000 and said now that wolves are directly responsible for a 20% reduction in elk numbers where wolves are present. Please explain how WDFW knows how they can control them when no one else does.

[bobcat]

Everyone, except maybe the wolf huggers, know that hunting will not sufficiently control the wolf population. The WDFW knows this, of this I have no doubt.

But what is your point?

Did the WDFW ever say that we would soon be hunting wolves and everything would then be in perfect harmony?

[bearpaw]

We're not asking for wolf management on the westside so you can rest in peace, we only want to protect our pets and livestock where the wolves are eating them.

That's not true. People have been saying there should be an open season on wolves. I doubt anyone disagrees with people having the right to protect their livestock and pets. I would shoot a wolf to protect my dog, legal or not. Who wouldn't?

Personally I think there should be a year around season on wolves just like there is coyotes. If I was in charge, that's how it WOULD be.

But, I don't think it's right to criticize the WDFW, as they are only doing what they are required to do by law.

Here's the problem with WDFW:

 - They pushed for 1.5 times as many wolves in WA as in Montana, a state probably more than twice as large
 - WDFW ignored much of the new data coming out of ID/MT regarding wolf predation to get their 15 BP's
 - Not one option for the wolf plan allowed fewer than 15 BP's
 - WDFW stacked the wolf working group with enough wolf lovers to pass their agenda
 - With a multi-million dollar budget WDFW only has 4 wolf trappers for the whole state
 - WDFW has lied about wolves, far more wolves have been reported, but WDFW calls many of them coyotes, etc.
 - Certain personnel appear to be hiding the true wolf numbers

No doubt, WDFW owns this wolf mess! 

[mkcj]

My point is we start controlling right now or we are screwed, We cannot afford to wait for the whole state to get wolves by then it will be to late for many areas. Waiting 5-10 years to start hunting like stated above and most deer hunting in this state on the east side will be very limited at best.

[bobcat]

My point is we start controlling right now or we are screwed, We cannot afford to wait for the whole state to get wolves by then it will be to late for many areas

I think we're screwed, either way.

Very soon, out of state hunting will become a much more common thing for Washington residents.

[bearpaw]

My point is we start controlling right now or we are screwed, We cannot afford to wait for the whole state to get wolves by then it will be to late for many areas

   That's the problem in a nutshell, the NE and the Okanogan will be devastated.

[bearpaw]

What makes me the most upset, I have watched this moose herd grow. I remember when they issued the first moose tag, now we have a good growing moose herd and that is the animal that the wolves will hit the hardest. 

[huntnphool]

All I am saying is IMO in the next 5-10 years we will have a special permit hunt, which will be broke up by wolf region.

The reason I said you were too optimistic is according to the proposal they need to be stable at the 15 BP number for three years once they reach that requirement. At that point they will begin the discussion of hunting them, likely taking another year or two, or perhaps waiting until the following three year big game season setting meeting.

After all this stalling they will publically announce their hunting proposal meeting, to be held a couple months later in the year so they can adequately plan for it. The meeting will be filled with wolf advocates from all the popular groups, all speaking opposed to any kind of hunting.

Finally the season for hunting wolves will be set, likely 10+ years from now. Then just when you thought it would finally happen, the wolf groups will file law suits to stop it, which WDFW will have to abide by until litigation is complete, likely several more years down the road.

This is exactly what has happened in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming, and like I asked you earlier, what makes you think Washington will be any different? By the way, WDFW couldn't answer this question from the commission either.

In total, I don't see a hunt for wolves in Washington for at least 15 years, and thats assuming WDFW doesn't pull the trump card 2.5 years into the 3 year waiting period of wolves maintaining the 15 BP's, saying "one of the alpha males is missing and pressumed dead so we are no longer at 15BP's" at which point the 3 year "stable" period would have to start over.

[bearpaw]

Thankfully Commissioner Douvia pushed for an 18 BP cap and for the 75% big game threshhold, if we reach 18 BP's in any year they can delist, if any ungulate herd drops below 75%, they can manage.

The problem will be getting WDFW to identify 18 BP's or the decline in big game herds. 

[snowpack]

And that would be for the state to delist, which would only allow hunting on the eastern 1/3 of the state.  The western 2/3 would still be federally listed.  I think it would require western OR and Northern CA (cascade and sierra mountain regions) to recover before the westside could manage.

[huntnphool]

The problem will be getting WDFW to identify 18 BP's or the decline in big game herds. 

And there in lies the problem, actually believing what they say about the numbers.

[bearpaw]

The problem will be getting WDFW to identify 18 BP's or the decline in big game herds. 

And there in lies the problem, actually believing what they say about the numbers.

In some cases I think they are just naive and lack experience, in other cases I am convinced some of their personnel are purposefully hiding wolves from the count.