UPDATE: Sheriffs sue over COLORADO gun laws

[pianoman9701]

I would boycott this year but the tag has already been paid for.  Goin for trophy pronghorn out of Trinidad.

I'd go, too. Good luck BH.

[NWWA Hunter]

This is why I believe that in the future that people may turn into a cash society. Payment to those who work to support there family are made in cash so that those who take from the government will not get the taxes.

[Special T]

I read an article that ID has the largest Cash/barter % in the US. ANYTIME That the Gov starts crushing its citizens with too much tax OR bureaucracy the "cash" economy expands. There is no real way for them to estimate how much Revenue they lose, so I think they ignore the size of the problem... Like ALL things Gov does there is a cost. If the cost of compliance is too high and the negatives too low people will find ways around these laws. That is why Low taxes and low bureaucracy actually works better. The cost of compliance is so close to the cost of avoidance.

[Dave Workman]

Dan,  I'm now thinking of renting a bus to haul us and all the other hunters on our Colorado deer and elk hunt. Sounds like you're still in? We actually may want to contact an outfitter, as we could possibly get a guided hunt at a fraction of the normal cost, since everyone's bailing out of their Colorado hunts this year.   

Let's hear it for drunk bus drivers who text at the wheel.....
    

[Elkaholic daWg]

Dan,  I'm now thinking of renting a bus to haul us and all the other hunters on our Colorado deer and elk hunt. Sounds like you're still in? We actually may want to contact an outfitter, as we could possibly get a guided hunt at a fraction of the normal cost, since everyone's bailing out of their Colorado hunts this year.   

Let's hear it for drunk bus drivers who text at the wheel.....
    

 

[Dan-o]

Dan,  I'm now thinking of renting a bus to haul us and all the other hunters on our Colorado deer and elk hunt. Sounds like you're still in? We actually may want to contact an outfitter, as we could possibly get a guided hunt at a fraction of the normal cost, since everyone's bailing out of their Colorado hunts this year.   

Let's hear it for drunk bus drivers who text at the wheel.....
    

So, is this the part where I'm supposed to say something like:  "May the bus find you early in it's journey."?

Making stupid statements like yours does absolutely nothing to bring decent people to understanding.   

so, let me ask:   Do you own a small business?  If so, what kind?   Perhaps we should boycott you out of business in the name of some other good cause we both agree on.....   You could feel good knowing that we were indignant when we put you out of business because of something you didn't vote for.    Although, something just tells me, you don't own your own business.   My guess is you suck on the gov't teet....   

[Dave Workman]

Dan,  I'm now thinking of renting a bus to haul us and all the other hunters on our Colorado deer and elk hunt. Sounds like you're still in? We actually may want to contact an outfitter, as we could possibly get a guided hunt at a fraction of the normal cost, since everyone's bailing out of their Colorado hunts this year.   

Let's hear it for drunk bus drivers who text at the wheel.....
    

So, is this the part where I'm supposed to say something like:  "May the bus find you early in it's journey."?

Making stupid statements like yours does absolutely nothing to bring decent people to understanding.   

so, let me ask:   Do you own a small business?  If so, what kind?   Perhaps we should boycott you out of business in the name of some other good cause we both agree on.....   You could feel good knowing that we were indignant when we put you out of business because of something you didn't vote for.    Although, something just tells me, you don't own your own business.   My guess is you suck on the gov't teet....

Actually, as many on this forum will attest, I do own a small business.
And the government sucks, alright. It vacuums out my wallet at every opportunity. I know a lot of decent people who think your approach is pure bull$#!+. I spent several hours with them Saturday at the Washington Arms Collectors' Puyallup gun show.

You want "understanding" with people who are gutting your gun rights?  Understand this: Those people understand you real good. They understand how you just want to be friends and they love that sort of mentality because they will eat you alive.

There is no reasoning with those people. Theirs is a campaign of attrition and piecemeal erosion of your rights.

You think its clever to trot off to Colorado and help these people "prove" that a "little" gun control isn't so bad, fine. What will you do when they decide it's time to ban "sniper rifles."  You know, those dirty old high-power bolt-action rifles with telescopic sights.  That's on their radar screen, or didn't you know that?

Handguns?  They hate 'em.

But go have a good time in Colorado.  Ignorance is bliss.

Now, for your further reading edification, if not enjoyment....



http://www.northwestfirearms.com/legal-political/129855-outdoor-channel-pulls-production-colorado.html


OUTDOOR CHANNEL PULLS PRODUCTION FROM COLORADO DUE TO CO. SENATE BETRAYING 2ND RIGHTS!



PLEASE SHARE FAR AND WIDE!

From: Michael Bane
Date: Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 4:09 PM
Subject: OUTDOOR CHANNEL Pulls Productions from Colorado
To: Steve King

Dear Senator King;

I met you yesterday after the so-called "public hearings" on the antigun bills; as I mentioned, I am an Executive Producer for OUTDOOR CHANNEL. I currently have four series in production, including GUN STORIES, the top show on OC, with several additional series in development. My series focus on guns, hunting, shooting and the outdoors.

This morning I met with my three Producers, and we made the decision that if these antigun bills become law, we will be moving all of our production OUT of Colorado. We have already cancelled a scheduled filming session for late this month. Obviously, part of this is due to our own commitment to the right to keep and bear arms, but it also reflects 3 lawyers' opinions that these laws are so poorly drafted and so designed to trap otherwise legal citizens into a crime (one of our attorneys referred to them as "flypaper laws") that it is simply too dangerous for us to film here.

I can give you chapter and verse on the legal implications if you need, but suffice to say that the first legal opinion was so scary we went out and got two others. Al three attorneys agreed.

We are relatively small potatoes in television, but our relocation of production will cost Colorado a little less than a million dollars in 2013.

Secondly, we have proudly promoted Colorado in our productions (and have been moving more and more production into the state); now we will do exactly the opposite. What does this mean for Colorado? The community of television producers is a small one. Last week I had lunch with a major network producer who was looking to locate his new reality series in Colorado. That producer is also a shooter, and the new reality series will now be based out of Phoenix. That lunch cost Colorado over a million in economic impact.

Thirdly, according to numbers I received from the National Shooting Sports Foundation (for whom I used to work) yesterday, hunting had an almost $800,000,000 impact on Colorado in 2012, driving as many as 8330 jobs. Next month I will be in Texas meeting with most of the top outdoor/hunting producers, and the Number One agenda item will be Colorado. Already, hunting organizations and statewide hunting clubs around the country are pulling out of Colorado, and we expect this trend to accelerate rapidly.

The message we will take to our viewers and listeners is that these proposed laws are so dangerous to hunters and any other person, be she a fisherman or a skier who brings a handgun into the state for self-defense, that we cannot recommend hunting, fishing or visiting Colorado. We reach millions of people, and, quite frankly, we have a credibility that Colorado government officials can no longer match. Colorado Division of Wildlife is already running ads trying to bring more out-of-state hunters to Colorado...in light of the flood of negative publicity about these proposed laws, I can assure you those ads will fail.

We estimate that as many as one-quarter to one-third of out-of-state hunters will desert Colorado in the next 18-24 months, which will quite frankly be a disaster for the hunting industry in Colorado and have a devastating effect on our western and northern communities (certainly citieslike Grand Junction).

This is not a "boycott" in the traditional sense of a centralized, organized operation; rather, it is more of a grassroots decision on where shooters, hunters and other sportsmen are willing to spend their money. Look at the collapse of the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show in February. That venerable multimillion dollar trade show chose to ban modern sporting rifles and standard capacity magazines, and within three weeks it collapsed as all vendors and sponsors pulled out.

Colorado is going to pay a huge price for laws that will do nothing. Thank you, sir, for your support.
Best.

Michael Bane


OUTDOOR CHANNEL mbane@outdoorchannel.com


Michael Bane is a small businessman, too, Dan-O.  I know him. He lives in Colorado, and this is a rather big decision.

But you and Bobcat and your pals can be smug, make light of this and enjoy your road trip.

Bowhunter:  Good luck with your hunt.  Notch a tag and fill your freezer.   

[bobcat]

  But go have a good time in Colorado.  Ignorance is bliss.

          

[whacker1]

the businesses within Colorado that are capable of relocating are in the position to have the greatest impact.  MagPul has set the bar high.  It is in our best interest to recruit them to the Northwest.  Washington and Oregon are probably not high on the list for future locations, but I bet Idaho, Montana, & Wyoming are. 

I would like to know who else is leaving Colorado, so I can extend the invitation.

[Dave Workman]

the businesses within Colorado that are capable of relocating are in the position to have the greatest impact.  MagPul has set the bar high.  It is in our best interest to recruit them to the Northwest.  Washington and Oregon are probably not high on the list for future locations, but I bet Idaho, Montana, & Wyoming are. 

I would like to know who else is leaving Colorado, so I can extend the invitation.

See Above. Producer Michael Bane is pulling out with Outdoor Channel.  He lives in Colorado

[snowpack]

Actually, as many on this forum will attest, I do own a small business.
And the government sucks, alright. It vacuums out my wallet at every opportunity. I know a lot of decent people who think your approach is pure bull$#!+. I spent several hours with them Saturday at the Washington Arms Collectors' Puyallup gun show.

You want "understanding" with people who are gutting your gun rights?  Understand this: Those people understand you real good. They understand how you just want to be friends and they love that sort of mentality because they will eat you alive.

There is no reasoning with those people. Theirs is a campaign of attrition and piecemeal erosion of your rights.

You think its clever to trot off to Colorado and help these people "prove" that a "little" gun control isn't so bad, fine. What will you do when they decide it's time to ban "sniper rifles."  You know, those dirty old high-power bolt-action rifles with telescopic sights.  That's on their radar screen, or didn't you know that?

Handguns?  They hate 'em.

But go have a good time in Colorado.  Ignorance is bliss.

I don't think it is the case of befriending the anti's.  We know they won't stop until all guns and private property are controlled by the state.
But supporting the guys that voted AGAINST the gun control is IMO better than boycotting everybody.  The long term of boycotting everyone would just be abandonment by the gunowners nationwide.  The liberals aren't going to boycott--they will be rewarding Colorado--taking more of their hiking-mt biking-flower sniffing-bunny petting tourism there because they will feel safer and buying more products from Colorado.  So over time, you will be letting more liberal influence in.  The hunting guides will switch to birding guides or stargazing trips.  So the people will start to be immersed more and more in liberal culture and it will rub off...and then by the next election cycle Colorado will move a few more percent to the liberal Dems.  Then the next one it will be a few more percent.  Eventually they are going to be a lost cause.  If you keep supporting the guys that DO WANT high cap mags and semi-autos, etc.  They might be able to turn around the next cycle and not switch over their businesses to cater to smug, wine sniffing rainbow watchers.  OR they have to move to another state which means Colorado loses those votes and shifts more to the lib Dems.  Giving them more Reps/Sens to the US Congress to inflict this nationwide.  Just seeing this different than some of you guys I guess.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Killing innocent people because you're mad is still wrong......   If that's not clear to you, just trade positions and it should be cleared right up.

Nobody is being killed. You're being over dramatic.

Citizens and businesses of Colorado are responsible for what their government does. Refusing to spend money in Colorado or with Colorado businesses is really the only way a non resident has to show their displeasure. Colorado citizens and businesses need to realize that if they don't hold their government accountable it's going to cost them money. If business goes on as usual, they have no reason to create waves and challenge their government. They always have the choice to move to another State that supports thr 2nd Amendment.

Another benefit of a successful hunter/shooter boycott of Colorado would be to put other State's governments on notice that going after 2nd Amendment rights is going to harm THEIR economy and tax base. Washington is a State that needs a warning like that.

[Bob33]

Citizens and businesses of Colorado are responsible for what their government does...Washington is a State that needs a warning like that.

I take it that as a Washington citizen you're responsible for what Washington needs a warning about?

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Citizens and businesses of Colorado are responsible for what their government does...Washington is a State that needs a warning like that.

I take it that as a Washington citizen you're responsible for what Washington needs a warning about?

Yup, and I'm close to taking my income and discretionary money to another State. And trust me, If Washington passed sweeping gun control, I wouldn't blame people from out of State for boycotting Washington, even if it cost me money. I'd be out of this State in a heartbeat myself.  As it is, my biggest problems with this state are with taxes, fees, and access.

[Dan-o]

Dan,  I'm now thinking of renting a bus to haul us and all the other hunters on our Colorado deer and elk hunt. Sounds like you're still in? We actually may want to contact an outfitter, as we could possibly get a guided hunt at a fraction of the normal cost, since everyone's bailing out of their Colorado hunts this year.   

Let's hear it for drunk bus drivers who text at the wheel.....
    

So, is this the part where I'm supposed to say something like:  "May the bus find you early in it's journey."?

Making stupid statements like yours does absolutely nothing to bring decent people to understanding.   

so, let me ask:   Do you own a small business?  If so, what kind?   Perhaps we should boycott you out of business in the name of some other good cause we both agree on.....   You could feel good knowing that we were indignant when we put you out of business because of something you didn't vote for.    Although, something just tells me, you don't own your own business.   My guess is you suck on the gov't teet....

Actually, as many on this forum will attest, I do own a small business.
And the government sucks, alright. It vacuums out my wallet at every opportunity. I know a lot of decent people who think your approach is pure bull$#!+. I spent several hours with them Saturday at the Washington Arms Collectors' Puyallup gun show.

You want "understanding" with people who are gutting your gun rights?  Understand this: Those people understand you real good. They understand how you just want to be friends and they love that sort of mentality because they will eat you alive.

There is no reasoning with those people. Theirs is a campaign of attrition and piecemeal erosion of your rights.

You think its clever to trot off to Colorado and help these people "prove" that a "little" gun control isn't so bad, fine. What will you do when they decide it's time to ban "sniper rifles."  You know, those dirty old high-power bolt-action rifles with telescopic sights.  That's on their radar screen, or didn't you know that?

Handguns?  They hate 'em.

But go have a good time in Colorado.  Ignorance is bliss.

Now, for your further reading edification, if not enjoyment....



http://www.northwestfirearms.com/legal-political/129855-outdoor-channel-pulls-production-colorado.html


OUTDOOR CHANNEL PULLS PRODUCTION FROM COLORADO DUE TO CO. SENATE BETRAYING 2ND RIGHTS!



PLEASE SHARE FAR AND WIDE!

From: Michael Bane
Date: Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 4:09 PM
Subject: OUTDOOR CHANNEL Pulls Productions from Colorado
To: Steve King

Dear Senator King;

I met you yesterday after the so-called "public hearings" on the antigun bills; as I mentioned, I am an Executive Producer for OUTDOOR CHANNEL. I currently have four series in production, including GUN STORIES, the top show on OC, with several additional series in development. My series focus on guns, hunting, shooting and the outdoors.

This morning I met with my three Producers, and we made the decision that if these antigun bills become law, we will be moving all of our production OUT of Colorado. We have already cancelled a scheduled filming session for late this month. Obviously, part of this is due to our own commitment to the right to keep and bear arms, but it also reflects 3 lawyers' opinions that these laws are so poorly drafted and so designed to trap otherwise legal citizens into a crime (one of our attorneys referred to them as "flypaper laws") that it is simply too dangerous for us to film here.

I can give you chapter and verse on the legal implications if you need, but suffice to say that the first legal opinion was so scary we went out and got two others. Al three attorneys agreed.

We are relatively small potatoes in television, but our relocation of production will cost Colorado a little less than a million dollars in 2013.

Secondly, we have proudly promoted Colorado in our productions (and have been moving more and more production into the state); now we will do exactly the opposite. What does this mean for Colorado? The community of television producers is a small one. Last week I had lunch with a major network producer who was looking to locate his new reality series in Colorado. That producer is also a shooter, and the new reality series will now be based out of Phoenix. That lunch cost Colorado over a million in economic impact.

Thirdly, according to numbers I received from the National Shooting Sports Foundation (for whom I used to work) yesterday, hunting had an almost $800,000,000 impact on Colorado in 2012, driving as many as 8330 jobs. Next month I will be in Texas meeting with most of the top outdoor/hunting producers, and the Number One agenda item will be Colorado. Already, hunting organizations and statewide hunting clubs around the country are pulling out of Colorado, and we expect this trend to accelerate rapidly.

The message we will take to our viewers and listeners is that these proposed laws are so dangerous to hunters and any other person, be she a fisherman or a skier who brings a handgun into the state for self-defense, that we cannot recommend hunting, fishing or visiting Colorado. We reach millions of people, and, quite frankly, we have a credibility that Colorado government officials can no longer match. Colorado Division of Wildlife is already running ads trying to bring more out-of-state hunters to Colorado...in light of the flood of negative publicity about these proposed laws, I can assure you those ads will fail.

We estimate that as many as one-quarter to one-third of out-of-state hunters will desert Colorado in the next 18-24 months, which will quite frankly be a disaster for the hunting industry in Colorado and have a devastating effect on our western and northern communities (certainly citieslike Grand Junction).

This is not a "boycott" in the traditional sense of a centralized, organized operation; rather, it is more of a grassroots decision on where shooters, hunters and other sportsmen are willing to spend their money. Look at the collapse of the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show in February. That venerable multimillion dollar trade show chose to ban modern sporting rifles and standard capacity magazines, and within three weeks it collapsed as all vendors and sponsors pulled out.

Colorado is going to pay a huge price for laws that will do nothing. Thank you, sir, for your support.
Best.

Michael Bane


OUTDOOR CHANNEL mbane@outdoorchannel.com


Michael Bane is a small businessman, too, Dan-O.  I know him. He lives in Colorado, and this is a rather big decision.

But you and Bobcat and your pals can be smug, make light of this and enjoy your road trip.

Bowhunter:  Good luck with your hunt.  Notch a tag and fill your freezer.   

I am in total agreement that the law Colorado is horrible.   It's indefensible.   I've never said anything else.

I'm glad to see Companies like MagPro and Outdoor Channel pull out of Colorado.  I applaud it.  It's the right thing to do.    But not all Colorado-based sportsman's businesses can do that.  And they are the ones who would feel this boycott first and hardest.   The bunny huggers will not feel it, but it will have killed off some of our allies.   That makes no sense.

You, however, are COMPLETELY MISREPRESENTING what I said:

I NEVER said that I wanted to reason with "those People" (the anti-2A folks).

I NEVER said anything even remotely similar to "A little gun control won't hurt anybody".

I NEVER said I was for any form of gun control.   I believe the control we have now is too restrictive and nonsensical in many areas.

I NEVER said anything good about the law Colorado passed.   It's a terrible overreach of their constitutional authority.....   and it's WRONG.

I NEVER said that I sought understanding with "them".   I was hoping that "we"  2A people might seek to understand the other pro-2A guy's views instead of just bashing.

I tell you what:   You quit lying about me, and I'll quit asking you if you still beat your wife.

So, my question (that you've so far refused to answer) stands:

If the pro-2A side decided to boycott your business because of what some other people in your state did, you'd agree and just go out of business???   If not, why not?   That is EXACTLY what you seem to expect of others...