Released Wolves

[CementFinisher]

perhaps he was, wether he is credible or not does not change that these were different subspecies and were recognized so. until REintroduction started.

[JLS]

So if all of this evidence of a wrong species exists, and there were so many illegal acts committed, why haven't the SFW crowd along with their crony Toby Bridges of LoboWatch sued the US Fish & Wildlife Service?

[wolfbait]

I agree with his viewpoint and observations.

THe first wolves I encountered......circa 80-82 I am guessing.  A breeding pair with offspring in the high cascades, were a completely different animal than I am encountering now.   

I encountered one and had an altercation with circa 1990, a decade later, he was a killing machine.  Thats when YOU and I were both told to LIE about the presence of wolves in the valley.   We were both instructed to deny their presence or risk losing our job.  At that time it was refered to as the Libby Creek pack.  We were both employed by the federal government at the time.   I had that one encounter in all that time.  This also coincides with when they dropped the general hunt and coyote hunting during the fall season.  I believe that experiment failed.

The WE would be Bone and I.

I guess I should tell you about the 99.99% chance of a grizzly bear sighting on a timber sale up on Thompson Ridge?

Back in 1991/92 I was cruising timber for the USFS, we were just finishing up a good size sale. At lunch time if we were in a safe area, meaning along ways from anywhere, and we were in good rock country, we would roll a few rocks.  One day we hit just such a spot, there was this one rock about the size of a volkswagon that was just ready to roll, we worked on that rock with jilt poles till lunch was over and finally had to give up.

Next thing we know we are seeing pictures of our rock with the jilt poles stick out all over and where the other rocks we had rolled tore things up a bit. Pretty soon the biologist who come in and look for endangered speices in the sales were saying there was a 99.99% chance sighting of a grizzly bear in our timber sale.

Of cource we were confused, we had hiked that whole country several times and never saw any big bears, so we never said anything. Few weeks went by and biologist were collecting like flies on a fresh cow pile, come to find out they were saying that they had a 99.99% chance of a grizzly bear digging for glacier lillies right where we were rolling rocks.

So, one day here come all the big wigs from Portland for their photo shoot around a big rock with jilt poles sticking out all over. They had plans to throw the whole sale out, so the crew talked it over and decided we had better fess up, which we did.

What surprised us the most is we never got in trouble, our bosses thought it was funny as hell. Later on we did get in trouble for saying; "Are you 99.99% sure"when we asked about a certain road on the big radio.

They still threw out a hundred and some acres of the sale just to save face.  99.99% chance of a grizzly bear sighting with no bear hair, no tracks, no scat and jilt poles,    Remember that Bone?

[CementFinisher]

LMFAO!!!!     thats some good stuff right there!

[carpsniperg2]

Good stuff right there

[Simcoe hunter]

That is some funny stuff.  Another misguided adventure by liberal biologists who think they know what is best for the world.  Although most of the elk around the lower 48 came from the Yellowstone herd.  Still, I'm not impressed with this whole wolf recovery thing.  The letter from the first post was very interesting.

[boneaddict]

I do remember that.  Nicole was part of that.  I thought for sure you guys were busted.

There were some good spotted owl stories in there too.   I was eating lunch with one of the biologists when they joined up with us thinning a section.   We were sitting there and all of a sudden her eyes got big.  She had just "heard" a spotted owl.  I listened (bare in mind this is at noon), and I heard a magpie, and she said "There it is again".  Long story short, she was going to shut us down.  We argued about it, which apparantly attracted the magpie.  That or my cheetos.   I stil think she thinks she heard a spotted owl, even with that magpie sitting there staring her in the face.

[Sawbuck]

Interesting read, especially about the black wolves. One of the ones that I saw in the high country of the southern cascades in 2000 was all black.

[Special T]

not surprised

[WAcoyotehunter]

So he asserts that the native Rocky Mountain Timber Wolf lived in harmony with tame livestock animals?  Really?  So is that why they were eradicated?  And you think this guy is credible?

you beat me to it. 

So, what kind of data exists from GYE about this harmonious little wolf?  how many were there? 

[Curly]

I can't get the link to work for the video:

Richard Mitchell, Ph.D., from Alder, MT was also a guest speaker. As a retired U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service senior staff biologist, his message on the wolf population had the crowd’s attention. “I was in Washington D.C. during the wolf debacle. The reintroduction of the gray wolf into Montana was illegal and in violation of the Endangered Species Act of 1973.” He was very deliberate in his message and had several interesting takes on how the wolves were brought into Montana. Mitchell claims the USFWS was not protecting the endangered timber wolf by importing the gray wolf but rather violating the law. The Endangered Species Act forbids the introduction of a “non-essential experimental species” into the habitat of an existing endangered species. Mitchell encouraged agricultural groups to challenge the illegal transfer of gray wolves and shouldn’t stop until every one of the imported wolves and their progeny have been removed. Click on the link above to watch a video clip of Mitchell’s talk.

http://mfbf.org/on-the-trail/2011/07/grizzlies-wolves-oh-my/

[Curly]

Looks like Dr. Mitchell has been trying to get people to listen to him for a little while now.

Here is a link to something he wrote a couple years ago:

Wolf reintroduction illegal, species should be removed

August 21, 2011


In 1973, the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service listed the gray wolf as endangered in the Lower 48 states except Minnesota. This listing included the Rocky Mountain timber wolf which inhabited the greater Yellowstone ecosystem (GYE).

The Service's Northern Rocky Mountain Wolf Recovery Plan called for the reintroduction of gray wolves into the GYE. In their Environmental Impact Statement, the USFWS failed to address the status of the already listed timber wolf in the GYE and the difference in subspeciation of the wolves to be released.

In 1995, the USFWS released 66 gray wolves taken from the Yukon into the GYE (Montana, Idaho and Wyoming). The Secretary of the Interior determined this population of wolves to be a "non-essential experimental population" and this population was to be treated as a "threatened species."

This reintroduction was highly illegal and in violation of the Endangered Species Act (Sect. 10(g) of the Act) itself. For the purposes of this subsection of the act, the term "experimental population" means any population (including any offspring arising solely therefrom) authorized by the secretary for release, but only when and at such times as, the population is wholly separate from non-experimental population of the same species. The USFWS took a different subspecies of gray wolves from the Yukon and released them into the already occupied range (GYE) of the "endangered timber wolf".

Today, it is estimated that 1650 wolves consisting of 244 packs and 111 breeding pairs are now widespread throughout Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. Since the 1996 reintroduction was illegal and in violation of the act, every last wolf and all of their offspring therefrom should be removed from Montana

Richard M. Mitchell

P.O. Box 131

Alder

[wolfbait]

So he asserts that the native Rocky Mountain Timber Wolf lived in harmony with tame livestock animals?  Really?  So is that why they were eradicated?  And you think this guy is credible?

you beat me to it. 

So, what kind of data exists from GYE about this harmonious little wolf?  how many were there?

There was a study done prior to the wolf introduction, if I remember right there were 56 bps documented in Idaho, the USFWS ignored these wolves as they did everything else to reach their goal, just as WDFW is doing.

The Rocky MT wolves didn't run in huge packs, and there were very few wolf/livestock confrontations. They were a smaller wolf and not as aggressive, I think over the years these wolves had learned to respect people do to flying lead.

Honest biologists want to let the wolves recover on their own without the illegal wolf introduction, this way they would stay educated as they grew.

[boneaddict]

I think we should introduce 60 yukon moose into the selkirks to enhance the shiras population a little.  Why not........(sarcasm font)

I wouldn't have chosen the word harmoniously either, but that is just me.   Its pretty descriptive though.   There were a whole lot less problems that were easily manageable.

The definition of Living harmoniously .......  Sort of like today, prior to the event of dumping a bus load of child molesting pedophiles in the school playground during recess with no rules and letting them have a free pass because its "natural".  

[sled]

I think we should introduce 60 yukon moose into the selkirks to enhance the shiras population a little.  Why not........(sarcasm font)

I wouldn't have chosen the word harmoniously either, but that is just me.   Its pretty descriptive though.   There were a whole lot less problems that were easily manageable.

The definition of Living harmoniously .......  Sort of like today, prior to the event of dumping a bus load of child molesting pedophiles in the school playground during recess with no rules and letting them have a free pass because its "natural".