Shorten barrel?

[jackelope]

What would the disadvantages be to having a barrel shortened by 6" or so?? I have a 24" 9 twist .280 Rem barrel for my Encore and was considering shortening it to 16.5"-18" to make a lightweight rifle. Would the 9 twist have enough length in the barrel  to adequately spin the bullet? I've been shooting 140 grain Hornady gmx's with good results from the 24" tube. I'd have a smith cut and re crown. Just sort of an imagination kind of thing at this point. Not sure if its realistic to expect it to shoot.

[JLS]

I think you would have to use a really fast burning powder in .280 to be able to utilize a barrel that short?  You might be able to get away with 18".

[Bob33]

A general rule of thumb is 25-40 fps per inch of barrel length. That means 6" could reduce velocities by 150-200 fps.

As for accuracy there is no inherent reason a short barrel cannot shoot as well, or perhaps better than a long barrel.  It might be more difficult to streadily hold a whippy barrel. 

If you know and are close to the gunsmith, an interesting experiment would be to cut it to 18-19" and test fire it. If the accuracy is good, stop. If not, shave another 1/8" off and repeat. Barrels usually have sweet spots due to the harmonics of a bullet traveling down it.

[jackelope]

Not worried about muzzle blast. My .300wm is the mother of all muzzle blasters it would seem but it doesnt bother me. I  am worried about the rest though. Maybe i need a different caliber.

[kentrek]

I would make your rifle lighter in other ways...like the action an stock an scope.. Id call up some people that build UL rifles an see what they say

[jackelope]

I would make your rifle lighter in other ways...like the action an stock an scope.. Id call up some people that build UL rifles an see what they say

It's an Encore. Nothing left to change in the action. It's 7 pounds right now with the scope and the .280 barrel as is. Not too many options as far as stocks go. Definitely not like the options around for a Rem 700. Probably wont happen anyway. I was just wondering what the opinions were. I saw this one on YouTube and it made me curious.

[kentrek]

hmmm thats interesting...maybe have the barrel "thinned" or lathed down ?? that way you could keep the performance of your longer barrel.. its almost a pistol when it gets that short lol

[jackelope]

Encore pistols will shoot too!! Ha ha.

[Heredoggydoggy]

I would only take 4" off and make it a 20" barrel.  Easier to carry and handle, and not a lot of velocity loss.  Shorter than that and you might as well go to a different cartridge, in my opinion. 

PS: I was told years ago, that all the accuracy of a barrel is in the last 2" of the bore, so as long as the bore and crown job are good, the only difference would be velocity.

[david0]

Mike Bellm seems to know a lot about the Encores. I think you showed me he trigger job kit. Here he talks about shortening the encore barrels.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=580

[high country]

Frank green of bartlein did a test and cut barrels back and measured the velocity change.....it will blow your mind in how little difference it makes. Charlie sisk also did a similar test and got very similar results. These are two power names in rifles. IMO, once you get inside of 20" things get pretty blasty. A recontour is doable, as is fluting.

[crazysccrmd]

I cut down my 8mm barrel to make a shorter, handier and better balanced rifle for use in the woods. I cut it from 23.25" to 18", but after fixing my crappy cut, squaring the muzzle and crowning it was about 17.5". With my handloads (51gr H4895, 150gr SP) there was no fireball, excessive muzzle blast or noticeable loss in accuracy. I'd give it a shot.

[carpsniperg2]

For sure with the muzzle blast and the loss of fps. I am sure the 280 will still crank them out more then fast enough to get the job done so I would not think of it as a factor to not do it. Muzzle blast can be dealt with and if you are use to it it would not mess with you that much. I think it would be a great little gun and would not cost a ton to get it done.

[huntnphool]

What would the disadvantages be to having a barrel shortened by 6" or so?? I have a 24" 9 twist .280 Rem barrel for my Encore and was considering shortening it to 16.5"-18" to make a lightweight rifle. Would the 9 twist have enough length in the barrel  to adequately spin the bullet? I've been shooting 140 grain Hornady gmx's with good results from the 24" tube. I'd have a smith cut and re crown. Just sort of an imagination kind of thing at this point. Not sure if its realistic to expect it to shoot.

I would look for a Ruger Hawkeye 7mm-08 Compact. Its what Shorty uses Josh, is light and has a 16.5" barrel. She shoots 140gr. partitions with it.

[jackelope]

But my Encore frame is already tricked out and a barrel mod is a lot cheaper than a whole rifle. With the current barrel as is, with the small stock, its still quite light at around 7#. It only gets heavy with the thumb hole stock and the heavy barrels.
 

[dontgetcrabs]

I definitely wouldn't go shorter than 18" and probably not less than 20". To me a 7lbs rifle is a lite weight gun, compared to the 14lbs I sometimes pack around. 

Here's a link to a test on loss of velocity with shorter barrel lengths. It's not a 280, but still kinda interesting, and might give some in-site.
http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html

[JackOfAllTrades]

How much does each inch of barrel weigh?  Is it really worth it to cut it down? Four+ inches shorther, and I'm thinking you're going to need to redevelope your loads. Not that accuracy is the issue, but you're likely going to need a slightly faster burning powder to get the same velocities you have with the longer barrel. The 280 is a screemin little round. Why slow it down? That said, there are plenty of bolt action rifles with 20" barrels in 280 or 30-06 that do just fine. The thing about the Encore, is even with that barrel length, I don't think they're any longer than a bolt action rifle with a 20" barrel so how it handles in the woods is moot.  I think I would look into fluting the barrel and or hollowing much of the stock to shave a pound at most. A lighter scope and rings are possibilities too.
 
-Steve

[jackelope]

I shoot factory ammo so no load developing going on here.

The Encore, even with the 28" .300 barrel+the brake is a lot shorter than my Remington 700 with a 26" barrel. Like probably 6" shorter total.  A 20" barrel'd Encore would be ridiculously compact. That's the appeal.  It would be ultra compact. If I have a chance I'll stand the Encore up next to the 700 and take a pic.

Again, at this point this is all a day dream. It might play out I guess, we'll see.

[huntnphool]

But my Encore frame is already tricked out and a barrel mod is a lot cheaper than a whole rifle. With the current barrel as is, with the small stock, its still quite light at around 7#. It only gets heavy with the thumb hole stock and the heavy barrels.

Just giving you a excuse to make another purchase

[jackelope]

From the article in the link posted above...

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=580

Here is a list of each caliber used in the test, along with the ammo and group size before/after. I will also point out that there were 2 3-shot groups fired from the bench at 100 yards before the test and 2 3-shot groups fired after the test with the average group size listed for a ruler reading of group size measured center to center...

1) 22-250 / 55 gr. Federal Premium, before - 1 3/4" / AFTER - 3/4"...

2) 25/06 / 117 gr. Hornady Spire Point, before - 2" / AFTER - 1"...

3) 7mm Rem. Mag. / 140 gr. Nosler Partition, before - 2 1/2" / AFTER - 7/8"...

4) 308 / 150 gr. Remington Core-Lokt, before - 1 1/2" / AFTER - 3/4"...

5) 300 Win. Mag. / 180 gr. Ballistic Silver Tip, before - 2" / AFTER - 1"...

 

 
Okay, what was the ONLY thing done to these guns to cut their group size in half?

I cut 5" off the barrel and recrowned the muzzle!
Well, that may actually be two things but, it stands to reason that if you cut a barrel back, it automatically gets recrowned...

 
So why did these guns start shooting more like what they were supposed to with a 23" barrel instead of a 28" barrel?
Excessive "whip" and "vibration" as well as a total change in "harmonics"...

 

The .280 barrel I have is the tapered one he's talking about.

These Encore barrels also have what is referred to as a "step taper" and this too is a big cause of barrel flex. This is why that, when I build a barrel by barrel stubbing, I only use barrels that have a "straight taper" as this is what can be referred to as a self supporting structure. It does NOT whip around or flex like what the step tapered barrels do and with the vibrations lessened and harmonics dampened, accuracy potential of the barrel goes way up...

Will cutting 5" off of every barrel automatically make your barrel a better shooter? I cannot say 100% that it will but, I have yet to see one that it did not help at least to a certain degree and some more than others...

Velocity loss from going from a 28" barrel down to 23"? I did get to shoot the 25-06 and 308 over the chronograph and total velocity loss for both was less than 60 fps.. I was expecting more but, and this is only my opinion, I feel the oversize bore closer to the muzzle end of the barrel was the culprit. If the bore was uniform from end to end or the muzzle end of the bore had a slight constriction to it, I would have expected a greater velocity loss. The 25-06 really suprised me as this cartridge performs admirably in a long barrel and shows it's true velocity potential. Not so in the last couple of Encore barrels I tested...

[jackelope]

But my Encore frame is already tricked out and a barrel mod is a lot cheaper than a whole rifle. With the current barrel as is, with the small stock, its still quite light at around 7#. It only gets heavy with the thumb hole stock and the heavy barrels.

Just giving you a excuse to make another purchase

That would work under normal circumstances, but once you have an Encore, the next new barrel affliction gets in your blood.

 

[huntnphool]

But my Encore frame is already tricked out and a barrel mod is a lot cheaper than a whole rifle. With the current barrel as is, with the small stock, its still quite light at around 7#. It only gets heavy with the thumb hole stock and the heavy barrels.

Just giving you a excuse to make another purchase

That would work under normal circumstances, but once you have an Encore, the next new barrel affliction gets in your blood.

 

then why waste time debating a modification of your existing barrel, can't you just buy a new barrel the length you want it and have both?

[huntnphool]

http://www.eabco.com/encor01.html

[jackelope]

http://www.eabco.com/encor01.html

Blocked by work firewall.
What's it say?

[JackOfAllTrades]

Thompson Center Arms Custom Shop - Custom Made Barrels for TC Encore, Pro  Hunter, Contender, and G2 from EABCO

Thompson Center Arms Main Menu * Custom  Encore/PH Barrels * Custom Contender/G2 Barrels Action Job - Trigger Tune Up * Custom Encore Gun Stocks* EABCO Home Page * Scope Mounts[/t][/t][/t]

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ph. 320-834-3000, FAX 320-834-3002 , Orders Only Toll Free 1-800-950-9088  New!  Customer Reviews
Thompson Center Custom Shop (aka Fox Ridge Outfitters) is Gone!No Worries! EABCO will Fill the Void with Custom Encore and      Contender       Accuracy Barrels

As part of it's move into the S&W factory production             system, Thompson Center Arms has closed its Fox Ridge Outfitters             TC Custom Shop and retail store. It's not such a big deal as we             see it here at E. Arthur Brown Company. But since we took             orders for and sold so many of the TC Custom Shop produced             barrels, I expect quite a number of customers to be disappointed             and wonder where they'll go to get custom chambers, contours,             lengths, and finishes.   Custom Chambers,             Contours, Lengths, Finishes, and Twists... From EABCO             - Thank you so much for making our Custom TC Encore and Contender Accuracy Barrels             such a huge success.             These are premium, high precision rifle barrels... Designed              and produced for the highest accuracy potential and available in             Made-to-Order as well as standard configurations. If             you liked TC Custom Shop barrels, you will LOVE our EABCO Encore             and Contender             Accuracy Barrels...   Contender and G2 Contender Customers             - We now offer Custom Made             as well as             Standard Accuracy Barrels that fit your gun. The             first two Standard models are 6mm BRM and 6.5mm BRM. These are cartridges that give big game             hunting performance to small frame rifles like the G2 and             Contender -             Thank You for Your Consideration, Eben Brown

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[Huntboy]

Josh,

Check out Bellm's website, they might even be willing to answer questions.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=543

[mazama]

My timber rifle is a19'' 338win mag,deer rifle 284win with 20inch barrel with long throat 3250 with 120 Barnes,350Rem mag 18inch barrel shoots great.

[yorketransport]

Chop the barrel and be happy. I love an 18-20" barrel on my hunting rifles. Heck, I run 18-20" barrels on my handguns. The short barrel will shoot just as well, the noise really won't be significantly worse, and the velocity loss isn't going to make an difference.

There are a lot of 17-19" specialty pistols in 284 Winchester which preform beautifully. In fact I think it's one of the best cases to run out of the long barreled pistols. I don't see why the 280 (with very similar case capacity) wouldn't work just as well.

Andrew

[Heredoggydoggy]

Chop the barrel and be happy. I love an 18-20" barrel on my hunting rifles. Heck, I run 18-20" barrels on my handguns. The short barrel will shoot just as well, the noise really won't be significantly worse, and the velocity loss isn't going to make an difference.

There are a lot of 17-19" specialty pistols in 284 Winchester which preform beautifully. In fact I think it's one of the best cases to run out of the long barreled pistols. I don't see why the 280 (with very similar case capacity) wouldn't work just as well.

Andrew

Could your short barrels have a different twist rate? 

[yorketransport]

Could your short barrels have a different twist rate? 

I've never had a problem using standard twist rates. I've run the following twists in barrels from 14-19":
204 Ruger 1-10"
6mm BR, 243 Win 1-8"
6.5/284 1-8"
7mm/08, 284 Win 1-9"
308, 300 wsm, 300 RUM 1-10"
338/375 Ruger 1-10"

All have given .5 MOA or better accuracy using standard rifle load data. I got better and more consistent velocities by using slightly faster powders in the really short (14") barrels.

Andrew

[JoeE]

Just saw this thread after doing a search.

Jackelope, I just took my Encore to Mike Pollazo in Covington and for $70 he cut and recrowned my 30-06 barrel from 28" down to 23". I'll be headed to the range later this week to see how much(hopefully) it improved accuracy. I really like the feel and balance of the rifle now with the shorter barrel.

[Biggerhammer]

Do it!! It won't hurt a thing.

[jackelope]

I thought I'd update this today. Bmcox86 is picking up his Tikka today and dropping off my 24" .280 Rem Encore barrel with Mike Palazzo. I'm going to talk to him and see what he recommends, but I'm thinking I'm going to have him cut it down to 20" and recrown. I was thinking about 18" plus a Vais brake but I'm afraid that brake, that close to my head, will be totally unpleasant to shoot. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

I just talked to Mr. Palazzo and he recommended leaving the barrel alone. He's forgotten about 11 times more than I will ever know about rifles so I'm going with that and am going to leave it alone.

Thanks for all the input.

[coachcw]

Josh just sweetin the trigger up and enjoy it . your plenty strong enough to pack it around .

[jackelope]

Josh just sweetin the trigger up and enjoy it . your plenty strong enough to pack it around .

Already done, Coach.

[mountainman]

Yorkie?

[yorketransport]

Once you've played around with a short barreled Encore rifle you'd wonder why you didn't do it years earlier. They are extremely handy while tromping through the brush. But leaving your barrel alone give you an excuse to buy another barrel and have it chopped down.

For the record, a Vias brake that close to your face is pretty unpleasant. Just a word of advice, when somebody bets you $10 to shoot a short barreled, muzzle braked gun with your mouth open, don't fall for it!

Andrew

[jackelope]

Mr. Palazzo's reasons for leaving it alone was 1-loss of muzzle velocity and 2-muzzle jump.  Maybe he was thinking of these reasons specific to the .280 Rem. He did ask me repeatedly if it was a .280 barrel I was wanting to do it to. I know he's cut down Encore barrels before for a couple guys on huntwa so he must not be totally against it.

[Bob33]

I like Mike but you need to remember that accuracy is supreme with him. Portability and weight don't register on his scale. I think you could take a few inches off and not lose much, but your accuracy could get better or worse.

[jackelope]

I think I've decided to find another barrel to dink around with. I'd still like to do it but I think I want to try it with more of a "spare" barrel.

[Biggerhammer]

When somebody bets you $10 to shoot a short barreled, muzzle braked gun with your mouth open, don't fall for it!

Andrew

Hahaha! Awesome...

[mountainman]

Found most of the XP's i have had over the years to be just as, if notmore accurate thena longer barreled rifle!

[Special T]

Talked to a buddy that has shortened a couple of barrels. it makes the louder, but more accurate in the "short" range because they are more stiff and barrel harmonics are less important.  I say shorten the barrel if its 300y yards or less but if you want a long rage gun you need barrel length AND proper harmonics to get the best out of velocity AND grouping. 

[kbrowne14]

According to some of the worlds best Precision long range shooting instructors.  They have come to the conclusion that a 20 inch barrel for a .30 cal of pretty much any kind is great.  The barrel harmonics are much better, less barrel whip.  If you can adjust your scope, a hundred fps doesn't matter.  The school of thought is changing, and people that have been in the business for a long time tend to have a little trouble forgetting what they have known to be right for 20 years.  If I could do these tests myself, I would, but I can't because I'm not a millionaire.

Now I heard all this through the internet from a French Model.  It has to be true.