SOP question....lets say you are at the gun counter...

[h20hunter]

So...here is my question for those of you in the retail or customer service side of firearms sales and or service.

Is it not SOP to visibly remove the magazine if applicable, clear the action, and leave the weapon in "open chamber" condition?

I have had two recent experiences. First...the Cabelas in Marysville. The gentleman behind the counter, Tyrone I believe, was cleary well trained in the handling and use of firearms. Ever time he handled a weapon it was cleared and handled like a professional. Every time he was given a weapon back, it was again cleared, confirmed safe, and put away.

Second experience was at Norpoint in Smokey Point. We handled four diferrent pistols. Each one was taken from the display case, mag in, slide down, and placed on the counter. Each time I picked it up, cleared it, put it in slide lock, and put it back down on the counter prior to my bro in law picking it up and handling it. Not once was the weapon shown or confirmed unloaded prior to be handing over.

Am I overly sensitive or what?

[magnanimous_j]

So...here is my question for those of you in the retail or customer service side of firearms sales and or service.

Is it not SOP to visibly remove the magazine if applicable, clear the action, and leave the weapon in "open chamber" condition?

Absolutely without question, yes.

When I was working a gun counter, if you got caught NOT doing that, you’d get yanked off the counter right then and have to go to training again. If the next one wasn’t for 6 weeks, guess who was switched to the 430AM stocking shift for 6 weeks?

[DoubleJ]

You are not being overly sensitive at all.  Tyrone did things the way they should be done.  Period.  Sloppy gun handling is inexcusable.  I know from first hand experience

[h20hunter]

My only regret was not noticing or asking his name. I've emailed Norpoint with my concerns. If it is NOT SOP there I would never reccomend anyone visit that place. We shot some range guns and the staff at the range portion was knowledgble, helpfull, and completly professional.

[Smossy]

Interesting fact, Ive noticed this not done correctly at even the Lacey Cabelas store when my girl has been looking at various guns.
They pull it out from under the shelf and just hand it to her. Maybe say a thing or two about it but thats it. Cant speak for everyone at that store but the few times we have went there I cant recall them clearing.

[724wd]

complacency is inexcusable.     ALWAYS verify the weapon is unloaded! 

[Antlershed]

Was at Cabelas over the weekend and I asked to see a pistol for my wife. The older gentleman behind the counter just grabbed it and handed it to her. I grabbed it from her and made sure it was cleared. Then, the real reason we were there was to buy a cricket .22...we are having a boy in July, and granted he won't be able to shoot it until he is older, we wanted to have his "first gun". Anyway, the new crickets have a lock, that when engaged, won't allow you to put a round in it. The same older gentleman went on to make the comment "that way you can lock it, and then you can let him keep it in his room." Uhhh, NO! My wife and I couldn't believe he would say that 

[Atroxus]

complacency is inexcusable.     ALWAYS verify the weapon is unloaded! 

I was taught that when picking up a firearm or if someone hands me a firearm, to check the chamber. ALWAYS! Even if I just watched someone else do it before me. I was also taught to always clear the chamber before handing a firearm to another person, even if handing it right back to the person who handed to me. I had a friend when I was younger that took me shooting occasionally, and he griped at me every time if I didn't clear the chamber both when he handed me a gun, then again before I handed it back to him. It's habit now...and a good one to have in my opinion.

[pianoman9701]

complacency is inexcusable.     ALWAYS verify the weapon is unloaded! 

I was taught that when picking up a firearm or if someone hands me a firearm, to check the chamber. ALWAYS! Even if I just watched someone else do it before me. I was also taught to always clear the chamber before handing a firearm to another person, even if handing it right back to the person who handed to me. I had a friend when I was younger that took me shooting occasionally, and he griped at me every time if I didn't clear the chamber both when he handed me a gun, then again before I handed it back to him. It's habit now...and a good one to have in my opinion.

Yeah that. I have a real hard time with improper handling and will tell someone so.

[fishngamereaper]

complacency is inexcusable.     ALWAYS verify the weapon is unloaded! 

I was taught that when picking up a firearm or if someone hands me a firearm, to check the chamber. ALWAYS! Even if I just watched someone else do it before me. I was also taught to always clear the chamber before handing a firearm to another person, even if handing it right back to the person who handed to me. I had a friend when I was younger that took me shooting occasionally, and he griped at me every time if I didn't clear the chamber both when he handed me a gun, then again before I handed it back to him. It's habit now...and a good one to have in my opinion.

SOP or not..it should be second nature to someone that has any gun experience..ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded...duh..

[h20hunter]

Here is my email to Norpoint.......I'll post their response when I get it.

"I wanted to share something that has bothered me since my last visit to your facility.  My brother in law and I came in and had an enjoyable time shooting a few range guns. I found that the range guns were kept in excellent working condition and performed above where I would expect for a range gun. The staff at the shooting portion of the facility was nothing but accommodating, professional,  and helpful. However, my experience at the other side of the facility, the retail counter was by and far the least professional I have experienced. We were browsing and were offered to look at and handle a few different pistols in the case. Each time one was taken from the case the weapon was placed on the counter, magazine in, slide down. Is it standard procedure at Norpoint to not clear the weapon prior to either placing on the counter or being provided to a person for handling? Speaking with my brother in law later we both agree that we were made very uncomfortable with actions by the man at the counter. Is it not standard procedure to clear the weapon before handing it to your customer? If not I would like to take that in consideration next time I may want to visit."


I thought the email was very polite and pointed out the good and bad of the visit.

[lostbackpacker]

I think the e mail reads very good.

[kckrawler]

Drama troll (kidding)

If they aren't handling the firearms properly, I definitely think you should bring it to their attention. After all, they are a training facility and should lead by example. Also, I thought your email was very polite but to the point, good job 

[scoyoc5]

Always always always check and clear your weapon!! Hats off to you h20. Hopefully they will reply to your email.

[h20hunter]

Hope so. Funny is we were at my place, hanging in the garage, and I was giving one of my 1911's a quick clean. We were chatting and I finished up and had it in the case. He asked a question about the barrell bushing and its function...I took it out, dropped the mag, checked the chamber, and put it in slide lock. Then, and only then, did I show him the placment of the bushing and point it out. Like you guys have said....it is common sense and should be standard practice each and every time the weapon is handled.

[high country]

There are places for redundant safety.....ensuring the license plate light works during the day....not so much, handling a potentially dangerous item....absolutely.

[h20hunter]

Here is the reply I received. I'll be trying to provide some additional information to help her identify the problem.




Thank you for your email.  I appreciate you taking the time to let us know what we can do to improve.  It is only through our failures that we can learn. 

First, it is absolutely our policy to clear EVERY firearms before handing it to a customer.   Patron safety is of the utmost importance.  There is no excuse for not following company safety procedures.  I will look personally into this matter and also bring this matter up at our next weekly training session.  You should fell safe when visiting our facility.  I apologize for my staff not following safety protocol.  We take pride in being a safe shooting environment and we take comments such as yours very serious.

Do you know who did not follow procedure?  Can you narrow it down by at least day/time of your visit?  Can you describe the individual.  I am not wanting to make an excuse, but we did hire some new staff recently, and it is apparent that there are some training issues.

I also wanted to ensure that aside from the safety issue, you were treated in a courteous and respectful manner.  Please let me know if you have other concerns or praises for our business.  Again, I want to apologize for your inconvenience.  Please do not hesitate to contact me, if you have any further concerns.  My mobile number is xxxxxxxxxxx.

Regards,

Jan
Jan Gossing
Owner

Norpoint Shooting Center LLC
8620A NE 172nd Street
Arlington, WA 98223

Tel.: +1.360.386.8832
Fax : +1.360.386.7171
www.norpointrange.com
 
             
 

[Russ McDonald]

When I got out of the Navy, I couldn't find a job in my field right away so I went to work at a home a farm store with a sporting good department.  I eneded up the department manager for sporting goods.  Clearing the weapone before showing it to a customers was part of our safety training.  Being the manager too I made sure that everyone who was behind the counter did so.   I do it with out even thinking about it even today.  I have been to alot of different stores and if I was handed a fire arm and they didn't clear it I would automatically do it.  It is commone sense.  It is pretty cool that the owner of Norpoint emailed you back H2O.

[brush hunter]

Was at Cabelas over the weekend and I asked to see a pistol for my wife. The older gentleman behind the counter just grabbed it and handed it to her. I grabbed it from her and made sure it was cleared. Then, the real reason we were there was to buy a cricket .22...we are having a boy in July, and granted he won't be able to shoot it until he is older, we wanted to have his "first gun". Anyway, the new crickets have a lock, that when engaged, won't allow you to put a round in it. The same older gentleman went on to make the comment "that way you can lock it, and then you can let him keep it in his room." Uhhh, NO! My wife and I couldn't believe he would say that 

Congrats on the new son, I bought a cricket for my grand daughter and she started shooting at 3 years old. as far as handing someone a firearm without checking it first...well one should be slapped

[Biggerhammer]

I can care less how they hand it to me, I always check/ clear it myself before the fondling begins.

[h20hunter]

Thats fine and dandy but what about the guy next to you, behind you......what if he doesn't do the same. Worth the risk? NOPE.

[JLS]

I'm going to clear it myself also.  HOWEVER, it should be done by every person that picks up the weapon.  If nothing else, it is reinforcing this practice to your son, your daughter, your wife, the kid behind you, the kid's dad, and so on. 

Gun safety cannot be redundant enough.  Take a look at the negliglent discharges that take place at gun shows.

[smdave]

Jan the Owner of Norpoint is a very nice person.

He can watch all those cameras from home. He could see what is going on when ever he wants. I have spoken to him on the phone while in there and he has said there you are I see you.

Every gun should be cleared before handing it off.

[h20hunter]

I will agree that Jan (not a chick as I stupidly assumed!) seems to be an upstanding business owner. His response to the matter seems to be very direct. I have no doubts the follow up will be very thorough. Just from the few emails we exchanged I would not have a problem visiting Norpoint in the future.

[6x6in6]

I won't touch it if it has not been cleared/checked under my observation.  And then, I will also clear/check it myself before the true fondling.
I expect the same when I'm done fondling from myself along with whomever will be the next person to take possession.
Redundant, sure.  I'll take redundant thanks.

No, you are not over reacting.
And that was a very good response showing genuine concern from Jan!!

[mountainman]

I can care less how they hand it to me, I always check/ clear it myself before the fondling begins.

Any employee of mine that does not open the action and drop the magazine BEFORE handing it to a customer is no longer selling guns! Have let several go that have missed this critical step...several have left to work at the other local gunstores..only hope they have learned the lesson and show proper safe handling now..I personally would not touch a gun handed to me without being cleared first!! No exceptions!!

[Elkaholic daWg]

 As soon as I read this I knew what business you own................



http://www.highmountainhuntingsupply.com/

[troyspinetar]

I actually purchased a pistol about a month ago from Norpoint. Every pistol they handed me was safety checked and magazine handed to me separately.
Of course I always check myself, because until I see with my own eyes that gun is loaded.
Sorry about your experience. I'm glad you took the time to address this issue. The last thing we need is more negative attention focused on firearms.

[mountainman]

Have a friend who picked up a gun at a gunstore locally that was on the counter. A hunters ed instructor. Gun went off, lost a finger and part of a hand. Stupid mistake on his part AND the employee putting the gun on the counter. More so the employee!!! Now when I see him, I always give him a "High Four"...

[mountainman]

As soon as I read this I knew what business you own................



http://www.highmountainhuntingsupply.com/

[snocohunter]

I certainly agree with you, and can echo that every time I've been to Norpoint I've always been handed guns mag out and cleared. Very safe and professional.

Probably ten years ago when i was living with a couple buddies in the bachelor pad, I had let my little brother take dad's nylon 66 he'd handed down to me out shooting with his friends. He brought it back in the case and it was out in my garage. One day while i was up in my room with my girl at the time, my two roommates start yelling to get down stairs. Apparently their curiosity led them to take that gun outside and start fondling it. Luckily the muzzle was pointed at the ground. It gave me a good opportunity for an impromptu firearms safety refresher with them. Wish my idiot brother had never gotten that gun when it was back at the folks, it was never to be seen again after his "pawn shop" phase we'll call it.

Then again recently in Troy, MT with a buddy of mine in the good old Booze N Bait, he asked to see a pistol from the case. The lady working handed it to him and being trained he dropped the mag, and cleared a loaded chamber. Needless to say she was shocked/embarrassed. She was actually physically shaking in fear and disbelief. He also took that opportunity to burn that rule into her mind and showed her how to clear every weapon she had in that case. Lucky nobody else got hurt.

[mountainman]

I see too many with a casual attitude for proper gun handling in a gun store. Mostly new folks to firearms needing an education, but all too often, from people who have been around guns a lot....NO EXCUSE! I will never let a customer unload loaded firearm. AHand it to me and I will clear it.

[h20hunter]

I am sure that this was an isolated incident with a single person at the counter and not representative of the business on a whole. Prior to that visit and I had had nothing but good experiences and doubt I will have anything but a good experience the next time I go in. I'm sure the issue has been addressed.

[KNOPHISH]

I agree about clearing all weapons but who's loading these guns inside the store?

[pianoman9701]

I agree about clearing all weapons but who's loading these guns inside the store?

Moot point. All guns are loaded. All of them.

[h20hunter]

Who knows....nobody....somebody....lot of idiots out there. Also, plenty of crazy butt folks that may just slip a round in because they want to cause problems. The fact is...until the gun is cleared....you simply don't know. Not knowing could kill the person behind the counter, you, maybe that child on the other side of the room standing by his dad.

[mountainman]

Who knows....nobody....somebody....lot of idiots out there. Also, plenty of crazy butt folks that may just slip a round in because they want to cause problems. The fact is...until the gun is cleared....you simply don't know. Not knowing could kill the person behind the counter, you, maybe that child on the other side of the room standing by his dad.

[Boss .300 winmag]

complacency is inexcusable.     ALWAYS verify the weapon is unloaded! 

I was taught that when picking up a firearm or if someone hands me a firearm, to check the chamber. ALWAYS! Even if I just watched someone else do it before me. I was also taught to always clear the chamber before handing a firearm to another person, even if handing it right back to the person who handed to me. I had a friend when I was younger that took me shooting occasionally, and he griped at me every time if I didn't clear the chamber both when he handed me a gun, then again before I handed it back to him. It's habit now...and a good one to have in my opinion.

 

In jr high I lost a friend to this not being done! 

[Thefisherman83]

Perfect example of why this NEEDS to be done every time you touch a gun.  I was recently unpacking some of my late fathers belongings and came across a blanket with half a dozen guns wrapped up in it.  Pulled them out one by one and checked the actions, found a Mini 14 with one in the chamber a full mag and safety in the fire position.  The company that packed up the belongings got a royal chewing out, for A not marking them as firearms and B not checking them.  Luckily I was the one that found them not one of my niece's or nephew's. 

[runamuk]

So...here is my question for those of you in the retail or customer service side of firearms sales and or service.

Is it not SOP to visibly remove the magazine if applicable, clear the action, and leave the weapon in "open chamber" condition?

I have had two recent experiences. First...the Cabelas in Marysville. The gentleman behind the counter, Tyrone I believe, was cleary well trained in the handling and use of firearms. Ever time he handled a weapon it was cleared and handled like a professional. Every time he was given a weapon back, it was again cleared, confirmed safe, and put away.

Second experience was at Norpoint in Smokey Point. We handled four diferrent pistols. Each one was taken from the display case, mag in, slide down, and placed on the counter. Each time I picked it up, cleared it, put it in slide lock, and put it back down on the counter prior to my bro in law picking it up and handling it. Not once was the weapon shown or confirmed unloaded prior to be handing over.

Am I overly sensitive or what?

no you are not they did it wrong,
 I was actually standing in a gun shop when an order came in from a manufacturer brand efing new guns in boxes shop owner cleared the chamber and there was a live round in it, everyone there had a shocked look......every gun every time they are all loaded.  I also will not take a gun that isnt offered up action open

[winshooter88]

mountainman, just to be clear, the guy behind the counter was the hunter ed instructor, not the one who lost his finger. That being said there was no excuse for what happened. The guy who lost his finger was a life long shooter and hunter as well as ex-military. At least since it happened he has been using it to drive home the point about treating all guns as though they are loaded, he even goes to hunter ed classes to show the students what can happen.

[Rick]

Tyrone must have received some training. I was in Cabela's a while back and 'ol Tyrone was waving a shotgun around like it a flag in a 4th of July parade.

I don't care if its unloaded or not,pointing a firearm at me pisses me off. I think Tyrone heard my message loud and clear.

[mountainman]

mountainman, just to be clear, the guy behind the counter was the hunter ed instructor, not the one who lost his finger. That being said there was no excuse for what happened. The guy who lost his finger was a life long shooter and hunter as well as ex-military. At least since it happened he has been using it to drive home the point about treating all guns as though they are loaded, he even goes to hunter ed classes to show the students what can happen.

The guy behind the counter was actually the owner of the establishment, and his personal weapon that went off...and the gun(s) fell of the counter, as the customer tried to catch it..Boom, ..that quick.

[MadHatter]

I was at wholesale sports in Silverdale a few years ago and the female firearms manager was helping a customer with a holster and had a glock off their wall. While talking to the customer facing away from me she out the magazine back in it, dropped the slide put it under her arm (pointed at me) and pulled the trigger! I was mortified looking at the barrel of a handgun I had no idea about and then hearing the click of the striker falling...

When I went to talk to the general manager I was completely blown off... When I emailed their corporate I was as again given the "we will look into it" schpiel... Thankfully with the reacquisition by Sportsmans Warehouse she lost her job...

I myself worked at a gun counter for a while and my personal policy was to never had anything directly to a customer... It was always placed on the counter, mag out and slide locked back for them to pick up and check and manipulate as they wanted... I would then have them set it down, drop the mag, lock it open and check again before putting it back together and back in the case. Pointing a firearm at a customer and pulling the trigger would not have worked, no matter how it happened...

Glad you are sticking with this... People who are unsafe have no place in the firearms industry... That is how "accidents" happen and people get hurt or killed... Which gives all of us, firearm owners, retailers or gunsmith a black eye.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[KelseyH]

This was a private message from one of our Hunt-Wa members, Boss 300 mag;

Kelsey,

I was in Wenatchee conducting business with another HuntWa member so I decided to drop in your store there. Upon entering the store my weapon was checked, I explained I was shopping for a holster for it and continued to that part of the store. I wasn't seeing what I wanted so a different employee came over to help me, checked weapon again as he wasn't the one who originally checked it. He went to the back and brought out a holster that was exactly what I wanted. Continued to shop for a scope rail ( you were out, but Dallas ordered one and will ship it upon receiving it), and I found A set of Burris rings for it. This type of mount system is new to me so I had some extra questions that probably sounded dumb to Dallas, but he was understanding and patient with me.

I will be doing more business with your store in the future when my travels allow me.

I just wish more stores in your business were this professional, knowledgeable, and patient with people who are not always experienced with aspects of different weapon systems.

If you want to post this on the forum that is fine with me, or I can.

Just wanted you to have the decision in that.


Sincerely

Corey

I want to that Corey for his business and the nice words. Dewey

[mountainman]

With a check every time the firearm is handled, accidents will NOT happen :-)