I hate wolves. JUST hate them

[merlo105]

Count me in as a wolf Hater

[dreamingbig]

I glad most hunters disagree with you. You must be a liberal?

.

I'm no liberal.  I just don't see the logic in hating an animal for being an animal.

When you can't hunt elk and deer anymore, don't complain!

So if I offered to give you my Montana deer/elk combo and told you the only caveat was you had to hunt in the western half of the state where there are wolves, would you turn it down?

Hirshey wrote up a great story on a great deer hunt that is smack in the middle of wolf central in Idaho.  I guess their group didn't get the memo there were no animals left?

Which state has more animals?  Which state has more people and less land too hunt?  Apples to oranges comparison.  Also MT has started to shoot those hairy buggers.  WA will not manage the population correctly.  THAT I am convinced of.  It is their liberal way of reducing hunting to zero.

[Smossy]

Buncha wha wha whaa

[JLS]

A very interesting study that WY Game and Fish is working on that shows trends consistent with the Northern Yellowstone elk herd, ie. an aging cow population and low calf recruitment.

http://www.wyocoopunit.org/index.php/kauffman-group/search/absaroka-elk-ecology-project/

A very interesting study that WY Game and Fish is working on that shows trends consistent with the Northern Yellowstone elk herd, ie. an aging cow population and low calf recruitment.

http://www.wyocoopunit.org/index.php/kauffman-group/search/absaroka-elk-ecology-project/

THANKS MAN. The way I read that article it kinda proves our point.

I thought they were all crooked liars just pushing their own agenda, regardless of truth?

[turkeyfeather]

I was referring to the part that stated that the wolves were pushing elk out of their traditional area and into habitat they are not as familiar with. Causing them to maybe be malnourished and then become weak and more susceptible to disease and wolf attacks. To make a long story short it still makes them responsible for the ungulate decline.

[JLS]

The factors that limit elk pregnancy are poorly understood in the region, so we have focused much of our attention on this issue. One potential alternative explanation for low pregnancy rates is the risk of wolf predation. A recent hypothesis for such "stress" or "fear" effects is that wolves reduce elk forage intake in winter by causing elk to be vigilant or to shift into poor-quality refuge habitats, leading to reduced body-fat levels and, ultimately, to lost pregnancies. The previous research on this question used somewhat indirect, short-term measures of elk nutrition and reproduction (e.g. from fecal pellets and urine) and broad-scale indices of wolf predation risk (e.g. wolf-elk ratios). To gain more direct insights, we tracked the simultaneous movements of elk and wolves using GPS collars, while also monitoring elk body-fat levels and reproduction through biannual recaptures and closely observing winter elk behavior.
 
Our results indicate that elk in the migratory subpopulation respond to wolves, but only when wolves approach within about 1 km. We see small increases in vigilance behavior, movement rates, and displacement, but no changes in elk habitat use (which is dependent mainly on the time of day). And even though migratory Clarks Fork elk experience higher wolf-elk ratios than most elk in YNP, an individual migratory elk encounters a wolf within 1 km less than once a week. Together with modest behavioral responses, this relatively low encounter rate suggests we should not expect to see large, cumulative nutritional losses due to wolves.
 
Along these lines, our analysis indicates that elk body-fat losses over winter are not related to the frequency of 1-km wolf encounters. Instead, the starting body-fat levels of a cow elk in autumn - that is, the amount of fat she was able to gain on summer range - is a much stronger predictor of over-winter fat loss and March body-fat levels. We also found that the frequency of wolf encounters is not related to pregnancy status. These findings cast doubt on any link between the "fear" or "stress" of wolf predation and recent changes in the distribution, productivity, and abundance of Yellowstone elk. Among the elk we study (as discussed above), it seems more likely that the severe drought of the past decade, acting on an ageing elk population, reduced elk pregnancy - and that predators, particularly bears, kill many of the newborn elk calves.

[turkeyfeather]

In contrast, we have detected no changes in green-up, or associated pregnancy reductions, in the habitats of resident elk. Therefore, it appears that fewer elk calves are born and more are killed by predators on the summer range of migratory elk, leading to their lower productivity over the past decade.
You forgot this part. I guess I still read it differently than you. I read it that wolves are pushing elk out of fear and that there aren't any real answers as to what is causing the decline. The only thing that is agree on is that when wolves were introduced the elk population decreased. Yeah no connection there. I don't know why you are taking this so personal with me. I am not the only one who believes your beloved wolves are responsible. I get it you don't want them to take all the blame. That's cool and they very well may not be solely at blame but they are responsible for the largest portion of it. We can find conflicting articles all day long the fact remains when they came the ungulates left. That fact has never been in dispute.

[JLS]

Absolutely nothing personal here.

I don't know why you call them my beloved wolves?  I've never said I like wolves, nor that I am happy we have them.  Ever. 

However, as a hunter, I am represented by all other hunters and by their words and their actions.  That I care about.

Yes, there are conflicting articles and one must sift through it with an open and objective mind.  It's fairly disingenious to cherry pick the articles you think support your stance, but then when one contradicts it to say that the folks behind it are just lying to make more money.

[AspenBud]

All I know is if people want wolves in the lower 48 some hunting has to be allowed. It's in the wolf's own self interest to be a game animal like cougars. People will pay to hunt them and as time goes on the money will be too lucrative to not keep them around at some acceptable number. Outfitters will get paid to take people to them, the state will make money, sporting goods suppliers will make money selling products used to hunt and trap them, and  taxidermists should make out well too.

The lack of a hunting and/or trapping season is missed opportunity. But once either starts, you can bet they'll be here to stay.

[turkeyfeather]

All I know is if people want wolves in the lower 48 some hunting has to be allowed. It's in the wolf's own self interest to be a game animal like cougars. People will pay to hunt them and as time goes on the money will be too lucrative to not keep them around at some acceptable number. Outfitters will get paid to take people to them, the state will make money, sporting goods suppliers will make money selling products used to hunt and trap them, and  taxidermists should make out well too.

The lack of a hunting and/or trapping season is missed opportunity. But once either starts, you can bet they'll be here to stay.

I agree. Even the wolf huggers have to know this is in their best interest. I will say that if they get a lot worse I will probably quit hunting. I don't hunt for trophies or just to hunt. I hunt for food, that's why I have no problem shooting a doe. I'm not saying trophy hunting is wrong at all. It's just not my thing. Don't get me wrong though if a doe or cow walk up with a stud in tow she's getting a pass this year. The only trophy hunt I want to go on is a big ole Canadian moose.

[billdo5]

  Johnny Bravo 

[pianoman9701]

The tags better be cheap like cougar and bear. If the DFW decides that a wolf tag is going to be $100 when they've done what they've done, there are definitely going to be problems.

[wolfbait]

Another wolf on a trailcam a few hundred yards from where the calf was killed.

[20 Minutes]

All I know is if people want wolves in the lower 48 some hunting has to be allowed. It's in the wolf's own self interest to be a game animal like cougars. People will pay to hunt them and as time goes on the money will be too lucrative to not keep them around at some acceptable number. Outfitters will get paid to take people to them, the state will make money, sporting goods suppliers will make money selling products used to hunt and trap them, and  taxidermists should make out well too.

The lack of a hunting and/or trapping season is missed opportunity. But once either starts, you can bet they'll be here to stay.

I agree. Even the wolf huggers have to know this is in their best interest. I will say that if they get a lot worse I will probably quit hunting. I don't hunt for trophies or just to hunt. I hunt for food, that's why I have no problem shooting a doe. I'm not saying trophy hunting is wrong at all. It's just not my thing. Don't get me wrong though if a doe or cow walk up with a stud in tow she's getting a pass this year. The only trophy hunt I want to go on is a big ole Canadian moose.

1) You might as well turn in your hunting license now, because it is going to get worse.
2) If you quit hunting, then you are doing exactly what the tree-hugging wolf lovers want. They don't want any animals killed. Wolves just happen to be the current story, because of their reintroduction and have made a massive comeback across the US.
3) I don't think the wolf impact has made that big of dent on our big game animals in Wa thus far. I think it will definately happen at some point, whether they are managed or not.
4) If Wa wants to host wolves, then fine; but they had better be monitoring the crap out of each GMU and the herd numbers. I would EXPECT that if they are going to force wolves upon Wa, that they had better be prepared to manage them before they get out of control.

If I see a wolf.....it is getting shot and I will keep on walking. I do everything by the book when I hunt, but when it comes to bears, wolves, or cougars; sorry! I am not showing up in the news. I am not taking my chances of being attacked with my 2 young boys. I will take my chances with the law.

[20 Minutes]

Another wolf on a trailcam a few hundred yards from where the calf was killed.

Time to get out some elk meat, peanut butter, and DECON!!!