Experience hits the long range

[RadSav]

After sending all my Washington legal Bear bows to my buddy Del so he could use them on his gator hunt.  I was left with only the new Bowtech Experience for the bear hunt this week.  I've got a few other Bear hanging on the wall ready to go, but all are set up perfectly for out of state hunting and I didn't want to mess with them.  And of course the Dark Horse beauty that is my blind queen (too pretty to go outside).  So finally out of the garage and off to the long range we go!

After working on Smossy's bow a little at the long range it was time to sight in the new Bowtech Experience with broadheads.  Took about four shots at twenty to get the zero just right and adjust the sight scale.  Arrow flight was perfect so no adjustments needed.  That was very nice!  Now, normally that takes me to 100 yards next.  But I forgot my branch clippers and there was too much new brush in the way for 80 to 100 yards.  So I guess 70 yards would have to do to verify the Archers-Advantage markings. 

The computer had told me 33 on the scale.  Nope!  Just low and to the right.  34 too high and right!  33.5 was just about perfect (looks like 3 fps different from the A-A program).  Then walked the arrows to the left a couple clicks at a time.  Finally a three shot group to verify - shoots pretty darned good!  Back to 20 to see if the extra left clicks had a major impact.  Nope, good to go!

Sure love sighting in using Archers-Advantage!  Less than 15 shots and sighted in to 100 yards in 2.5 yard increments.  If you guys haven't used Archers-Advantage or shot the new Bowtech Experience you are missing out!

[dupedc]

You make it sound so simple! I enjoy reading your posts and learn from them. Thanks.

[rtspring]

Rad, never shot a bow in my life. But always enjoy your posts!

Thanks

[Igottanewknee]

Haven't bow hunted for a couple years, but my memory of sighting in the bow with broad heads is a bit different. Shoot 3 arrows, retrieve 2 out of target, look for third, adjust sight. Grab another arrow to compliment the two you got out of target. Repeat step above, but hope you don't loose another arrow. After thirty or so shots your not sure your right on, cause your getting tired. Come back the next day and finish the job. Yes, you make it sound too simple!

[MLBowhunting]

Ok Rad my bow is being mailed to your house to get tuned and sighted lol 

[RadSav]

Haven't bow hunted for a couple years, but my memory of sighting in the bow with broad heads is a bit different. Shoot 3 arrows, retrieve 2 out of target, look for third, adjust sight. Grab another arrow to compliment the two you got out of target. Repeat step above, but hope you don't loose another arrow. After thirty or so shots your not sure your right on, cause your getting tired. Come back the next day and finish the job. Yes, you make it sound too simple!

Well I didn't tell you I tried to shoot one arrow at 80 yards   Thought I could get the arrows past the low lying branches.  Nope!   Spent 10 minutes in the blackberries before I said, "screw it!  That's what I get for being stupid."  I think there is at least one arrow a year left in the blackberries.  All from moments of complete stupidity.

Life got a lot easier the day I decided I wasn't going to try getting my broadheads and field points to group together.  Infact most of my bows these days haven't shot a field point further than 10 yards.  If the broadheads are flying like laser beams that's good enough for me.  In the odd year I decide to use my hunting bow at a 3-D shoot I just click adjust the sight to the field points and then reset for broadheads after the shoot.  Saves a lot of headaches when shooting carbon arrows.

In my haste to get this bow sighted I was shooting two arrows at a time at 70.  Most of the time that's not a problem.  With this BT Experience it wasn't such a good idea.  I have three arrows to refletch today.  It was shooting well enough that the three shot group in the pic was shot holding dead center, left of center and then right of center.  If not there would be even more refletching to be done.  It's one heck of a shooter.

[RadSav]

Ok Rad my bow is being mailed to your house to get tuned and sighted lol 

No guarantees...it's a Hoyt afterall, isn't it?

I will let you know when I get the Hootershooter set up next door.  Then I'll get you down here and we'll make that thing perfect. Just like a Bowtech or Bear

[MLBowhunting]

Lol sure is.  Yeah but with your expertise its a easy day 

[RadSav]

Lol sure is.  Yeah but with your expertise its a easy day 

I was shooting those same Titanium prototypes as you have been using.  We are cutting stamping dies for the new heads starting next week    I will definitely need you and Crazy Larry to come down when we start to play with those little guys.  Might need to get Bowhunter45 down here too since Larry's head will have similar blade shape to the WASP Bullet.

[hughjorgan]

Rad, what broad heads are shooting and are you shooting a one pin slider sight?

[RadSav]

Rad, what broad heads are shooting and are you shooting a one pin slider sight?

On that bow I am shooting the Sure-Loc Leathal Weapon Sportsman's Special with the new S2 scope body (35mm), .019" pin.

Both MLBowhunting and I are shooting a prototype 100 grain titanium ferruled broadhead with the Savora Contender blade configuration.  If unfamiliar with that head it's close to the same shape and size blade as the Thunderhead 100.  Big by todays standards, but I've found it to be a perfect combination of flight, cut and penetration.  The new heads we are designing for Del and Larry will be much shorter.  Similar in ferrule length to the MX series of Muzzy and/or WASP Bullet.  I've also got a surprise coming in the form of a new shorter Contender style blade.  A head I've been wanting to make for nearly 20 years.  Can't wait!

[hughjorgan]

Rad, what broad heads are shooting and are you shooting a one pin slider sight?

On that bow I am shooting the Sure-Loc Leathal Weapon Sportsman's Special with the new S2 scope body (35mm), .019" pin.

Both MLBowhunting and I are shooting a prototype 100 grain titanium ferruled broadhead with the Savora Contender blade configuration.  If unfamiliar with that head it's close to the same shape and size blade as the Thunderhead 100.  Big by todays standards, but I've found it to be a perfect combination of flight, cut and penetration.  The new heads we are designing for Del and Larry will be much shorter.  Similar in ferrule length to the MX series of Muzzy and/or WASP Bullet.  I've also got a surprise coming in the form of a new shorter Contender style blade.  A head I've been wanting to make for nearly 20 years.  Can't wait!

So those are the savoras you have been talking about marketing through your company? Looks like they fly real well out of a tuned setup.

[demontang]

Man I need to get the nerv to start shooting my broad heads at that distance. I really need to pick up some new heads before I do.

[RadSav]

With the right FOC and the right helical all broadheads are pretty easy to get to fly.  Oddly the only popular "New" broadhead design I've had issues with has been the Shuttle-T.  Even that hit with accuracy.  Just flew with what I call "Laziness".  A common issue with heads that use thick blades and are 90 degrees at the rear.  I say "Oddly" because nonvented blades usually fly much better than those with large vent holes.

When the arrow is fletched and weighted right your broadhead should be able to be as much as 5 degrees out of alignment and you'll still get good flight.  We've tested that over and over and over through the years.  Holds true each time.  One of the reasons I keep repeating that 12% FOC seems magical.  Good broadhead flight really is all about bow tuning and the arrow.

FYI - All those broadheads are random in their blade alignment.  Not one is intentionally aligned with the fletching.

[RadSav]

Man I need to get the nerv to start shooting my broad heads at that distance. I really need to pick up some new heads before I do.

Helps your confidence when your broadhead target is 4' square.

[demontang]

Lol my target is only 18x18" . If I had a bigger target I think id feel better.

[sven]

really enjoy your post Rad..... ..

[RadSav]

Lol my target is only 18x18" . If I had a bigger target I think id feel better.

Yeah!  With 18" a little wind or a 2nd axis out of adjustment that's a lost arrow.  Was sweet when I was living on the Oregon coast.  Find a sand dune out of the wind and you could miss by 20 yards and not lose an arrow.  We would bat some tennis balls around and then shoot at them.  It was the best and funest broadhead practice ever.

[RadSav]

Crazy that these arrows are the same arrows I use on those out of state legal bows that I would like to take.  But since I am hunting Washington I have to shoot them out of a different bow for them to be legal.  This bow shoots them just as fast, just as accurate and with just as much effectiveness than the other bows.  But in the Bowtech they are legal Washington arrows and out of the two Bear I have hanging on the wall they are illegal because of a few pounds of draw weight.  I will never understand that rule!

[MLBowhunting]

I cannot wait to see the new design of the broadheads.  Guys I used the prototypes on two different hunts and they performed flawlessly.   I am really interested in seeing those smaller heads that you have wanted for 20 years.  My Montana bull should feel the impact lol

[demontang]

Sounds like fun in the sand. I need to figure what heads I want to shoot this year. Ive been looking at the terminal t lock heads. Ive also been looking at montechs, ill have to look at the heads you using.

[RadSav]

Sounds like fun in the sand. I need to figure what heads I want to shoot this year. Ive been looking at the terminal t lock heads. Ive also been looking at montechs, ill have to look at the heads you using.

After spending all the money on those dang pink peep sights we've fallen behind on our set schedule.  I'm not sure we will have any of the new heads ready for sale before the season.  I have a strict dead animal count before release policy.  The new ones will need to survive oak baffle testing and put some blood in the dirt before they are released to the public.  Whack'em, WASP, SlickTrick and Strykers all have good blades.  Personally I would look at them first before going with the Montec or Terminal-T's 

[demontang]

Ive been looking at a few of those too. I like to get my hands on new things and im trying to improveenough in my shooting to get noticed by industry. Im working for a big outdoor company now and have been growing my name in the area. Ill have to say your knowledge has help too. Ill keep an eye for the new head release too.

[RadSav]

H-W members will be the first to know

[earlmarne]

After sending all my Washington legal Bear bows to my buddy Del so he could use them on his gator hunt.  I was left with only the new Bowtech Experience for the bear hunt this week.  I've got a few other Bear hanging on the wall ready to go, but all are set up perfectly for out of state hunting and I didn't want to mess with them.  And of course the Dark Horse beauty that is my blind queen (too pretty to go outside).  So finally out of the garage and off to the long range we go!

After working on Smossy's bow a little at the long range it was time to sight in the new Bowtech Experience with broadheads.  Took about four shots at twenty to get the zero just right and adjust the sight scale.  Arrow flight was perfect so no adjustments needed.  That was very nice!  Now, normally that takes me to 100 yards next.  But I forgot my branch clippers and there was too much new brush in the way for 80 to 100 yards.  So I guess 70 yards would have to do to verify the Archers-Advantage markings. 

The computer had told me 33 on the scale.  Nope!  Just low and to the right.  34 too high and right!  33.5 was just about perfect (looks like 3 fps different from the A-A program).  Then walked the arrows to the left a couple clicks at a time.  Finally a three shot group to verify - shoots pretty darned good!  Back to 20 to see if the extra left clicks had a major impact.  Nope, good to go!

Sure love sighting in using Archers-Advantage!  Less than 15 shots and sighted in to 100 yards in 2.5 yard increments.  If you guys haven't used Archers-Advantage or shot the new Bowtech Experience you are missing out!

thats some amazing shootin.i went n had concrete eat through my knees last week n can walk.i cant wait to get back out to my daily shooting.i hope someday to be printing groups like that.that stuff is inspirational

[demontang]

I have been looking at the truefire t1 head too. They seem really sharp

[RadSav]

I have been looking at the truefire t1 head too. They seem really sharp

I'm not sure who is making their blades.  Haven't made much of an effort to look into them yet as they could be deamed illegal/barbed by Washington state rules.  Next time I have the testing equipment out I'll grab a few of those blades and run them through the scope and rockwell tester.

[RadSav]

i hope someday to be printing groups like that.that stuff is inspirational

We've got some guys around here (like xXx Archery) that make me look like an epileptic having a seizure while I shoot.  Those guys are REALLY good.  And they definitely leave you feeling the impossible is possible.

I had John Heuvel at my range a few years ago to sight in some long range broadheads.  At 90 yards he advised me that my 90 yard target was actually 89.5 yards.  I said, "Oh go F*&$ off.  You can't tell that just by shooting."  Later that evening I went and got myself a 100 yard tape.  Dang it if he wasn't right on the money   Guys like that while inspirational P me off too.  They shouldn't be allowed to be that much better than me

[earlmarne]

i hope someday to be printing groups like that.that stuff is inspirational

We've got some guys around here (like xXx Archery) that make me look like an epileptic having a seizure while I shoot.  Those guys are REALLY good.  And they definitely leave you feeling the impossible is possible.

I had John Heuvel at my range a few years ago to sight in some long range broadheads.  At 90 yards he advised me that my 90 yard target was actually 89.5 yards.  I said, "Oh go F*&$ off.  You can't tell that just by shooting."  Later that evening I went and got myself a 100 yard tape.  Dang it if he wasn't right on the money   Guys like that while inspirational P me off too.  They shouldn't be allowed to be that much better than me

my problem i think more often than not is i am always trying to get my hands on the latest and greatest and test theoretic learning in tuning n what not on my equipment.i  need to heed Greg and Jims advice n get to the shooting.
i need to step out of my back yard and the woods and start hitting some shoots n meeting some of you guys n learn some things hands on

[demontang]

Lol those people inspire me to work that much harder even if ill never get there.

[RadSav]

"Always stay humble.  For no matter how dang good you think you are there will always be someone that comes along better."

Records are meant to be broken.  And with the exception of Cal Ripken Jr. I expect they all will.

[demontang]

I hear im really good all the time but I know im nowhere near what I can be or what people like you are. I can say im decent but know I have lots of growth and learning

[Austrian Hunter]

Do you give lessons???  I'm willing to travel, lol.  I'm serious! 

[RadSav]

Do you give lessons???  I'm willing to travel, lol.  I'm serious!

Not at this time.  I haven't done lessons for a few years.  One reason is the property where I have my range is now up for sale - never know when I'll lose that.  I'd like to buy it but 3M is a little out of my price range   Second is I've just been too busy with the peep business.  I can never get completely away from the business and that's not really fair for someone who needs undivided attention.  I would like to teach four or six archers a year.  Hopefully we can get to that in a year or two as I'm looking for property away from the shop/house.

James Loesch is now doing online archery lessons http://www.archerylessonsonline.com/home.php?varset=s:508-pm:p  If he has a hand in it I expect it's a pretty good deal.  Though I do not have any personal experience with it.

If you are willing to travel Dee Wilde does classes.  As does Larry Wise.  I have great respect for both of these guys.  They were the best of the best when I was just starting out in competition.

Of course these are all target shooters.  As bowhunters you need to be aware that good target archers are not always the best in the field shooters/bowhunters.  I had the luxury to work with the late Olympic coach Al Henderson.  Gosh I think that was back in the early 80's.  He helped me get in control of my target panic and improved my form greatly.  He also helped me to become proficient at self diagnosing my problems as they arose.  I still consider "Coach" to be the very best archery teacher/coach of all time.  And yet that did little to improve my "In the hunting field" success.  It was not until Duke Savora taught me how to aim at 'Animals' and understand 'when to shoot at animals' that my hunting success really took off.

Randy Ulmer just might be the very best at teaching both.  Though I do not think he teaches classes.  He did have copies of all his articles available on his website.  The link is still there, but the articles are not.  Hopefully that means he is writing a book!!!  If you can find access to all those articles, study them and take them all to heart I think you might as well have been schooled by the man himself.  What a great writer and a great teacher!  You are always welcome to use my shooters Mantra.   It's "I am Randy Ulmer."   Hey, don't laugh - It works

[Austrian Hunter]

Thanks!! 

[RadSav]

I hear im really good all the time but I know im nowhere near what I can be or what people like you are. I can say im decent but know I have lots of growth and learning

Just remember that Perfect Practice makes Perfect!  My target panic problems could have been overcome had I known what I know now.  But back then I thought more practice was the answer to my issues.  Ended up being the worst thing I could have done.  Instead of getting help and advise from someone in the know I just kept practicing my failures.  After a while those failures were quite well defined problems entrenched into my subconsious.  I've been trying to beat that target panic out of my head for over 20 years now.  Worked with some of the best coaches in the world, modified diet, photographed, video taped and seen a sports hypnotist.  And still it is a struggle.  I have good days like Saturday and bad days like all of "2008"   The only time I am completely free of it seems to be when shooting at animals.  And even then I have the one bad day now and then (refer back to the 2008 mention ).

Sounds like you have some natural talent.  And by now you should know what a perfect shot feels like.  I encourage you, if you shoot the first six arrows of the day (without a coach) and none of those shots feel perfect - walk away from the shooting line.  Try an hour later, a day later or a week later.  If that doesn't change things - find a qualified coach.  That's not the know it all at the range, not the know it all on ArcheryTalk, and not Joe Blow at the local archery shop. A serious coach like Corey at xXx, Bobby Hickey at The Nock Point, Glen Berry, even James Loesch online.  Better to nip it in the bud than to practice your failures and live the life of frustration that follows.  In otherwords, be smarter than me.

[DoubleJ]

Ok Rad my bow is being mailed to your house to get tuned and sighted lol 

Ditto this.  Either that or I need to free up a weekend to come see you and see how those tomato plants are coming along

[demontang]

Thanks ive been shooting for 20 years and ive pretty much just learned on my own. Ive had bad habbits ive broken but know theres more to break still. Ive really picked up a lot of skill this last year now that people look to me for help where I work. Ive got a few people that ive been teaching proper form and they have show great talent. I just want to be up to par with my ability as who im teaching are on my heels about learning. Ive been shooting a bowtech insanity and its really tuned me up. That short brace has shown me a few things lol