Let 'em go- so they can grow.

[Gutpile]

WOW    Folks that give up are not true hunters, not hardcore hunters and you have said for years that a large portion should not even be there! wow I had to think about that a few moments and I think that may be the most egotistical ,ignorant, self serving thing ive ever heard or seen put in print!

I think you misunderstood him deaddog. I think he's saying more casual hunters will just quit trying and stop hunting. I don't think he's calling anybody out. If you think about it you know who he means. The guys who drive by your camp site 3,4,5 times a day "hunting". the guys who have no spot picked out and are just winging it then start crowding your spot., the guys who walk out in the field at 8:00 and head back to the truck at 10, don't sight in there rifles, say things like "whadaya mean 3 point mimimum", or leave there deer laying in the sun for two days, or don't know what unit there in.........need more examples??? You know, the casual guys. These are the guys who like to hunt "kind of" but are not really into hunting like most of us on this site. They may buy a tag next year they may not. They bring a buck in to mount and never pick it up. Ask any Taxi about that. CASUAL guys. If they all stayed home it wouldn't hurt my feeling one bit.

It infuriates me when anybody tells another he should have passed on any animal that was shot. If  a guy shoots a small one and someone disagrees you need to keep it to yourself. there's a time and place for everything. I'm no dummy, I understand the whole QDM thing but I don't give a rats ass about it as far as whitys are concerned. Deer hunting has turned into a big money big antler competition. It makes me sick watching these "hunters" shooting deer from blinds at a feeder  or food plot and bragging about how big it is, then preaching to me about QDM. "Look what management did" they say. "I could have never shot this deer without good management". We are talking about "wildlife" right? It bothers me to no end. I give way more credit to a guy who shoots a 130 public lander than any tame deer at a feeder no matter how big it is.

Do I like big deer?? Heck yeah, who doesn't? I want big deer but I'm not going home empty handed either just to please other people who say I should have passed. As far as I'm concerned whitys don't need even MORE help. I Love the way it is now especially southeast. Lots of doe tags, youth and seniors can shoot a doe, and late buck is draw only. But I do agree that something really does need to be done with the muleys to give the trophy hunter a better opportunity and to keep the meat hunter happy. I'd almost say open up 2 and 3 points for a while, make 4 point or better draw only. And just see what happens. Maybe that'd cull out the inferior bucks and get better genes running. I don't know.

Whatever a guy shoots is HIS business as long as it's legal. You'll never hear me knock someone for shooting a little one other than a little campfire ribbing between friends.

As far as guys shooting illegal buck and leaving them lay. We all know it happens but I don't think it's as widespread as some would try to lead us to believe. Besides those are the casual *censored* hunters doing it anyways.

Wow that was a mouthfull. Time to go do something fun.

[huntnphool]

Some very good points Gutpile

[Swiftkid]

I agree with gutpile, we've all seen thoughs types of hunters he just gave examples about.

[cully]

I know that, I personally don't want to see the casual hunter give up. Those are dollars we need, hopefully going towards game management, whether they harvest or not.  I personally don't feel threatened by their presence, it is there right/privilage as much as mine. I really would like to see alot more get into the sport and hopefully grows into a lifestyle and culture that maintains a strong presence in our world.

[Let er Fly]

I have to agree with cully here.  How many times have you actually been screwed by the "casual hunter?"  Really?   By that I mean they walk out into an opening, clear cut, field, whatever and the buck you were drawn down on or had a bead on spooked and took off because of this casual hunter.  Okay, I know that it does happen, as it has happened to me (this year as matter of fact), but I got over it because the spot that I had choose to scout was not far enough off the beaten track.  That was my mistake and I learned from this and moved on to another location.  So, in conclusion I would say the money brought in by all the C.H.'s is very necessary to sustain what we have, and they shouldn't be bothering any of you while you are sitting in camp or at "your spot."  Just my 2 cents.

[huntnphool]

Lets try to tone it down a little guys, we all have our own opinions and its okay to express them but lets not make any personal attacks

[deaddog]

There's not as many hunters in the woods these days and we are losing more and more all the time. Put a point restriction on and we will lose the last of the hold outs who are getting disgusted with all the rules and cost of hunting we have now.

I personally would love to see fewer hunters in the woods.  The folks that are giving up because of too many regulations are casual and not the hardcore or true hunters anyway.  I have said for years that a large portion of the "hunters" in the woods these days shouldn't be there.  The true hunters are not the folks who are showing disregard for property, game and local laws, it is the half assed hunters that are the largest portion of violators.  If increasing point restrictions will lower the number of half assed hunters in the woods, I'm all for it.  The major bonus is more and bigger bucks, it is a win-win situation.

WOW    Folks that give up are not true hunters, not hardcore hunters and you have said for years that a large portion should not even be there! wow I had to think about that a few moments and I think that may be the most egotistical ,ignorant, self serving thing ive ever heard or seen put in print!

People are selfish by nature... you have your beliefs and you want to impliment or maintain a system that benefits YOUR beliefs... He has HIS beliefs... you don't like 'em, then TOUGH *censored*!  But quit with the personal attacks, you can respectfully disagree but we don't need more personal attacks on this site.  Get off your high horse there partner!
 

Michael   I was arguing against attacking others for their lawful taking of game.If you cant keep up maybe you should not comment until you can grasp the converstion, partner!

[huntnphool]

Again, lets try to refrain from the personal attacks please, thanks.

[Gutpile]

Dang, I can't believe where this has headed. Some CH's guys do ruin it for others especially concerning private land. They absolutely ruin it. Open gates, trash, driving on winter wheat. You name it. Casual hunters who play by the rules don't bother any body. But if you in any way affect the quality of another guys hunt by crowiding him or breaking rules your a dick. If I see others where I want to go, I go somewhere else and I expect the same. besides argueing about the revenue they'll generate is a mute point because they'll always be there. Maybe less at times but they'll never just go away completely. If they do, oh'well. This whole debate has morphed into a stupid pissing contest that is way off point. Treat others the way you want to be treated and treat the land like it's yours and everything will be cool.

[Sagedawg]

Dang, I can't believe where this has headed. Some CH's guys do ruin it for others especially concerning private land. They absolutely ruin it. Open gates, trash, driving on winter wheat. You name it. Casual hunters who play by the rules don't bother any body. But if you in any way affect the quality of another guys hunt by crowiding him or breaking rules your a dick. If I see others where I want to go, I go somewhere else and I expect the same. besides argueing about the revenue they'll generate is a mute point because they'll always be there. Maybe less at times but they'll never just go away completely. If they do, oh'well. This whole debate has morphed into a stupid pissing contest that is way off point. Treat others the way you want to be treated and treat the land like it's yours and everything will be cool.

Well said Gutpile. I agree 100% especially after the expeiance I had opening day.


  Sage 

[poulsbo]

1 more for 4pt. mulies and 3 pt blacktails.

[cully]

It is not mute, sorry. I hope they will always be there, cause if there not, neither will we. And, I agree!!! there are alot of ethics and common courtesy in question. Some even by those who don't consider themselves c.h.'s

Anyways, being new here, let me apologize if I helped take this off topic.

[GoldTip]

Here is what I have never understaood about this state when it comes to the management of the Mule deer and the managment of elk.  Lets see, a big mulie will generally gather a harem of does, there will be a couple of young bucks running around the edges of that harem with the the big old stud buck running them off now and then, and then the dominant buck will generally do most of the breeding. 

Kind of sounds almost exactly like how a herd of elk works, doesn't it?  Big Bull gathers  a harem, has several younger satellite bulls trying to steal them and then when he can the herd bull does most of the breeding of those cows.

So riddle me this, if big mulies and breeding pretty much mimics big elk breeding, why is it that the Spike only requirement which has been in place in the blues for elk since I moved to this state 14 some odd years ago, why is it that it has worked so tremendously well for the elk with multiple huge bulls killed down there every year and MANY more monster bulls seen down there.  But then why do we have a three point restriction on Mulies?  And if it should work so well, then why in the hell is our season set up so that only the larger bucks get killed each year and we kill them before the breeding even starts every year?

Elk and Mule deer rutting activity essentially mimic each other, but instead we have a three point minimum for Mule deer.  And yet I don't see humongous Mulies falling every year, in fact I am pretty sure a easy search of this website would show that most people believe the Mule deer herd is still in decline and that even the Raffle tag holder last year had a hard time finding a buck that would even come close to the bare lowest minimum to qualify for B&C record books and this was with multiple people scouting for him and telling him honey holes and his hunting all the traditional HUGE Mulie hot spots and even hunting well into the rut and into the migration.

Please, please, someone tell me why I should believe the 3 point rule is working.

[DeKuma]

I have often wondered the exact same thing Goldtip.  Makes perfect sense, which is why it does not work in this state.

[Gutpile]

I agree. I've wondered the same thing. I'm primarily a whitetail guy but have hunted mulies with no success. I see the big forkey Muleys other guys have mentioned that don't have the genetics to be a "trophy". I think it (3 point rule) was a good idea that didn't work. Made sense to me at the time but I'm not a believer anymore.