Poaching-Spot Lighting Deer really p...es me off!

[River]

I was on the side of the road Sunday night (8:00), up by the Forlorn Lakes area packing up my stuff from my unsuccessful weekend, when I see a beat-up white van coming up road.  The guy in the passenger seat had a spot-light probing the woods off the road while the driver drove slowly up the road.  They didn't see me until they were parallel to me on the other side of the road.  I could clearly see the driver as he paralled me standing across there.  There was a look of surprise, and then a big old grin on his indian face, as he picked up speed down the road.  I can't stand poachers.  I wish I had looked at his license plates, but it was deep dark anyway.

[SHANE(WA)]

Poachers? did you hear them shoot? or see them shoot? not illegal to spotlight in WA, during rifle elk or deer its against the law to have a weapon in the car. after that you can carry, you can shoot yotes,bobcats and racoons at night in WA.Should see it down on the ronde during steelhead season, locals out spotlighting shooting bobcats and yotes all night.

[roadhuntking]

Opening morning we get to our spot (dead end road that looks over a small cut that holds at least two masher blacktail) 45 minutes before light we each get our log or tree or what have ya to glass the cut.  20 minutes before light here comes a minivan, something looks kinda odd about the shape of the vehicle and the distribution of the head lights and then I see why, theres a native american sitting on the roof above the passenger door with a spotlight and another native american sitting on the roof also with a spotlight as soon as the realize that we are there the lights go out and its a stare down until they drive away and as soon as they're out of sight I can see the woods light up again, oh and not to mention the big burger king bag of trash left in the middle of the road that wasnt there when we drove in. FURIOUS!!!! I know there is plenty of rednecks that do they're share of bad behavior but where I live you see and here more of the native americans do they're share with fishing and hunting and it will never end in our lifetime.

[rougheye]

I think we need to have a smilie throwin a tomahawk   

[Ridgerunner]

I can remember sitting in camp in the huckleberry unit the first night of the season and the shooting coming from the other side of the river sounded like opening morning all over again, oh wait, it was opening night for those who prefer to jacklight their bucks.

[jeepasaurusrex]

We need to document this type of behavior with pictures, video, etc. Turn it into the game department, police. If they do not do anything about it, the media gets it next. I'm getting tired of this type of stuff looking like it is us hunters doing it. 

[UBA]

It is actually illegal to spotlight in any area open to big game hunting. Too bad you lost your chance at ten points 

[Colville]

I'm not supporting spot lighting. But As the two things below suggest, it would appear that you can light up anything you want, as long as you don't posses a weapon for the taking of big game, including archery equipment. The regs don't specifically disallow it and the RCW I cite only establishes a crime with the weapon in the vehicle. If I'm incorrect, please post the law/rule that directs to that fact. I'd be happy to try to help see it enforced.

PG 59 of WA regs.
1. Hunting big game with the aid of artificial lights  or spot lights is illegal.

It does not say spotlighting big game is illegal, only hunting them with the lights is illegal. Similar to #4 that says hunting from a vehicle is illegal, but not spotting game from one.

The RCW on spotlighting:

RCW 77.15.450
Spotlighting big game — Penalty.
   

(1) A person is guilty of spotlighting big game in the second degree if the person hunts big game with the aid of a spotlight, other artificial light, or night vision equipment while in possession or control of a firearm, bow and arrow, or cross bow. For purposes of this section, "night vision equipment" includes electronic light amplification devices, thermal imaging devices, and other comparable equipment used to enhance night vision.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.450

[popeshawnpaul]

I don't think it is illegal although I haven't looked at the law in quite a few years.  I don't have a problem with it.  I use to spotlight the fields in the old days around Okanogan during grouse season without a weapon and I know it was legal back then.  We would take pictures of the huge bucks in the field to get an idea of what was out there.  I knew the sheriff and we would talk about it all the time.  I don't see the problem unless you hear a boom...

[backyard bucks]

is there anything about harassment of wildlife?? i heard rumors along time ago about people being ticketed for such a charge. 

[roadhuntking]

I also don't mind spotlighting and think it can be kinda fun as long as there is no weapons in the vehicle.  But then again when your coming out of the woods at night and your headlights are on rifles, bows, muzzleloader, are in the truck and bam around the next corner you come to a stop and there sits walter the wall hanger and your lights are on him, he moves to the left you steer to the left, I guess that means your doing something illegal, i.e. spotlighting with weapons on you. But when some native americans are sitting on top of the car with lights off each side, I mean come on, are they out for a nice crisp morning of deer watching on opening day rifle. Dont think so. I think you may be right on the ticket thing, I heard something similar.

[deaddog]

seems kinda funny to me that you guys did nothing at the time, but you come home and get on this site and make racial remarks. it did not sound like you saw them doing anything wrong, you just want to be insultive to there race. well Im 1/2 wagon burnin,arrow flingin hawk chuker who thinks your an ass wipe and i think i would have done something other than run my mouth once i got home. if i have insulted you too bad. you just insulted a large part of our community and my family heritage. what i know for sure is crap like that dont belong here.

[jkononen]

you think they were doing something okay? and how would you have done something?

[yelp]

Using a vehicle to aid in spotlighting (plugged in) is illegal.

[yelp]

It doesn't matter race, creed, color...the law is the law.  Deaddog your right on.  We don't need that here on this site.  However you do agree that if it illegal or unethical or against law tribal or state or federal its wrong! 

[popeshawnpaul]

Can you cite me the RCW for that yelp?  I'd like to get a definitive word on this as I do not think the game regulations are paricularly helpful in this regard...  You said something about plugged in.  What if I'm using a battery operated one?  So being plugged in doesn't make much sense...

Regarding the issue in this post, I don't think we can say one way or another they were poaching.  What if they were just looking for a camping spot?  What if they were looking at deer with no weapons in the vehicle?  It certainly doesn't rise to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard.

[rosscrazyelk]

It is not going to matter anyway. Everything they do get swpt under the rug. Remember the Indians who shot that bull at oak Creek........ My point exactly.

[bighorns2bushytails]

well i had posted a reply earlier but apparantly it did not want to post... so rather then re hash what i typed earlier i went out to my truck and got my regs. 

page 57 of the washington 2008 big game regs

 " These are lawfull hunting hours (one-half hour before sunrise to one half-hour after sunset) for game animals and forest grouse (ruffed, blue, spruce) during established seasons.  EXCEPTIONS: (a) bobcat and raccoon are exempt from hunting hour restrictions during established bobcat and raccoon seasons except when that area is open to modern firearm hunting of deer or elk, hunting hours shall be one-half hour before sunrise to one-half hour after sunset.  (b) hunting hours for falconry seasons (except migratory bird season) are exempt from these hunting hours, except on designated pheasant release sites"

doesnt say anything bout coyotes,  but i think i recall last years regs saying something bout coyote hunting at night being OK as long as it wasnt during modern firearm deer or elk seasons.  i wouldnt think merely looking at animals with no weapon in the vehicle or on thier persons would constitute an illegal act. i would say anyone spotlighting during deer or elk season better expect to get some harrasment from other hunters as well as the law.   however thats just my 2 cents not a fact.   i would think if someones acting sheepish they are up to something,  otherwise they wouldnt care....  fact is some people do stuff like this most people pry dont.  just seperates the skillful people who work hard for thier harvests/trophies and the other people... i would like to add that i like my sleep entirely to much to even think about such an endeavor.

this pry doesnt answer any questions but its the literature i found right in the regs.  hope this might help.

[deaddog]

you think they were doing something okay? and how would you have done something?
[/quot     Do you assume their doing something wrong because their indian? Look I understand the issue, some folks will always take more than their fair share ,break the law, whatever, but puting an enter race to blame is just plan stupid. i have never poached anything. i pick up trash other leave. and ill turn anybody in who does, and have, whites and indians. But according to some of you , because im 1/2 indian, i must be poaching at least half the time, right. I have also seen the same kind of crap from whites, so since im also half white i must be poaching full time and to answer your second question, i would have approched them , i would have gotten a plate #. I would have done anything other than stand there with my hands in my pockets, waiting to get back to my house so my internet balls can exspress how bad indians are. punks thats all these guys are and thats not a judgement on race, its a judgement on their actions. i love to hunt and fish and enjoy the company of those who also love this sport, but mindless little ass wipes like a couple of the guys here are part of the problem, not the anwser. hope all you guys have a great day. even even mindless ass wipes deserve a break now and than.

[roadhuntking]

Well first and foremost we don't need this on here, and since I am the one who for the most part got this thing as hot as it did I half apoligize and I will change all the slurs to "NATIVE AMERICANS", and just to be straight with you, if it had been white people I would have also called them REDNECKS or WHITE TRASH or what have ya. And why might you ask with all the name calling, well people who do bad things deserve bad names. And why might you ask am I so negative about the tribal community, because I have seen and heard plenty over the years. And for the not calling them in and reporting a plate, for one it was opening day and thats what was on my mind, and second I have called and tried to do something about it in the past and everytime the same thing has happened, NOTHING, mind you I have never seen anything extreme like poaching, I have gotten the same response every time, warden says contact the tribal police, ok, I get a hold of the tribe and they want no vehicle or boat description or what did they look like, even when I tell them they don't care its always "we'll look into it". So thats another reason why I didnt call and "saved my balls for the internet".   

[Ray]

I can't blame you for being upset and saving your balls for the internet. Funny term 

From what I read on here it didn't seem to be a racist slur as much as it seemed to be an open rant about spotlighting. Did someone actually shoot something or was he just spotlighting and you have strong reason to believe there was intent to shoot?

[roadhuntking]

Definetly an open rant, no shots heard and no legite sign of intent to shoot, it just didn't look or feel right, (opening general weekend right before daylight). 

[deaddog]

Well then roadhuntking, I will half way accept your half way apology. I hope you  you can accept my half apology for calling you an ass wipe. Maybe I should have only called you half an ass wipe. Im kidding , Im kidding. I agree with you on most of your points, just not the racist slurs. Ive turned in more than a few indians poaching fish, deer, elk and nothing was ever done. But Ive known more indians, full blood, that were good honest folks just like you and me. seems like the system is broke and that tends to bring out the bad in some folks. anyway have a great day!

[Huntbear]

I had a long conversation about this topic with a gamey a year or two ago that was a great guy to talk to and was willing to share info.  I was curious so I asked basically what this thread is about.

Using a spotlight at any time shined on big game is considered harassing the wildlife, and you will be ticketed.  If you even have an air rifle in the vehicle while shining the light they will get you for attempting to poach.  That came from the wardens mouth.

[River]

I contacted the WDFW on this issue and this is their reply:

"Spotlighting is a violation under RCW 77.15.450 (1). 
 
Thank you,
 
Enforcement Program
360-902-2936

RCW 77.15.450 (1):
(1) A person is guilty of spotlighting big game in the second degree if the person hunts big game with the aid of a spotlight, other artificial light, or night vision equipment while in possession or control of a firearm, bow and arrow, or cross bow. For purposes of this section, "night vision equipment" includes electronic light amplification devices, thermal imaging devices, and other comparable equipment used to enhance night vision.

     (2) A person is guilty of spotlighting big game in the first degree if:

     (a) The person has any prior conviction for gross misdemeanor or felony for a crime under this title involving big game including but not limited to subsection (1) of this section or RCW 77.15.410; and

     (b) Within ten years of the date that such prior conviction was entered the person commits the act described by subsection (1) of this section.

     (3)(a) Spotlighting big game in the second degree is a gross misdemeanor. Upon conviction, the department shall revoke all hunting licenses and tags and order a suspension of the person's hunting privileges for two years.

     (b) Spotlighting big game in the first degree is a class C felony. Upon conviction, the department shall order suspension of all privileges to hunt wildlife for a period of ten years.

     (4) A person convicted under this section shall be assessed a criminal wildlife penalty assessment as provided in RCW 77.15.420.


[2005 c 406 § 6; 1998 c 190 § 27.]

[SHANE(WA)]

They CANNOT ticket anyone anytime of the year spotlighting if there is no weapon in the car. It also says right in the regs that you can shoot, coyotes, bobcats and raccons at night as long as rifle elk and deer season is not open. Trust me I have been stopped, by a warden

[jkononen]

wow, i must be racist.

[12Gauge]

It doesn't matter race, creed, color...the law is the law.  Deaddog your right on.  We don't need that here on this site.  However you do agree that if it illegal or unethical or against law tribal or state or federal its wrong! 

You guys are correct we do not need this kind of crap on this site or anywhere.  Labeling people just instigates or intensify racial hatred.  How did that guy that called them Indians really know they are Indians, did he check their ID's?  They could have been Mexicans, Asian or some other non white race. 
So please leave the labels at home, using a metaphor like monkeys is not good one ether.

[deaddog]

ok lets get this right he did not call them indians in hi first post it was hawk chucker and there were a few other racist names by others. comeing back in later and changing your original post dont mean it never happend.

wow, i must be racist. and as far as your concered i would have to say yes, you are a racist, your first reaction by your own words (do you think they were doing something right?) ya wow is right moron.