Changes to Master Hunter Special Permits

[pianoman9701]

Read it carefully. The changes are pretty big regarding the tag you carry.

WDFW WILDLIFE PROGRAM
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
wildthing@dfw.wa.gov

Dear Master Hunter:

The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife will be making some clarifying language changes to the Master Hunter Deer and Elk Special Permits. If you draw one of these Special Permits, please take note of the changes listed below. The changes will also be posted on the Department web site on the Corrections to the Big Game Pamphlet page at http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/ .

The following two corrections will be made to the Big Game Pamphlet on both pages 37 and 58-59:

    Under the Master Hunter Deer/Elk Special Permit Hunts, the 5th column in the table should read: 2nd Tag Allowed (not 2nd Tag Required).

    Under Master Hunter Deer/Elk Special Permit Hunts, the following language should replace the language in the Notes section:  Only one animal may be taken under this Special Permit opportunity. You may hunt only with the hunting method in compliance with your tag. Additional weapon restrictions may apply depending upon the hunt choice.  For those Special Permit hunts allowing the purchase of a second tag, hunters can use either their first or second tag but are allowed to kill only one animal under the authorization of the Special Permit. If a hunter uses their general tag and kills and tags an animal under this Special Permit, the second tag may not be used for the general hunting season.

The changes apply to both deer and elk Master Hunter Special Permits. The following scenarios illustrate examples resulting from the changes for elk:

    If a Master Hunter has an unfilled general elk tag and is called to participate in a Master Hunter Special Permit season, the hunter could hunt with the unfilled general elk tag.
    If a Master Hunter who has filled a general elk tag and is then called to participate in a Master Hunter Special Permit season, the hunter would need to purchase a second elk tag as long as that Special Permit hunt allows the use of a second tag.
    If a Master Hunter kills an elk during an early Master Hunter season and uses their first general elk tag, the hunter would not be issued another general elk tag for the fall general seasons.
    If a Master Hunter kills an elk during an early Master Hunter season and uses their Master Hunter second tag, the hunter would not be issued another Master Hunter tag for a later Master Hunter season.  The hunter may still have their general elk tag to be utilized in other appropriate seasons.

Again, for those Special Permit hunts allowing the purchase of a second tag, only one animal may be killed in the unit under the authorization of the Special Permit. We hope this modification clears up some of the confusion related to the Master Hunter Special Permit hunts.  Thank you for your service and your interest in Washington wildlife.


Wildlife Program
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife

[pianoman9701]

After talking with the MH manager, both tags must be of the same firearm that you chose for your regular tag. This is still up to the discretion of the hunt coordinator and can be waived. But, it's a big change to put out there after the special permit application period has ended.

[Bob33]

It is a clarification of poorly written language which could be interpreted as stating that a primary tag was not valid in the first 3911 season.

[WSU]

After talking with the MH manager, both tags must be of the same firearm that you chose for your regular tag. This is still up to the discretion of the hunt coordinator and can be waived. But, it's a big change to put out there after the special permit application period has ended.

It pisses me off.  I may very well see if I can get this undone. 

This must have been done under an emergency WAC change.  I'm not sure if incompetence in passing the regs correctly the first time is a legally valid reason under the Administrative Procedure Act to use an emergency WAC change.  It seems to me they should have used the normal rule making procedures.

[splitshot]

   why does a master hunter get a second elk tag when others dont, they are not that special.  that is boloney, the state could make lots of money selling chances for a second elk.  how much does a second elk tag cost?   this is really an injustice to all wa hunters, letting a select few get more tags.    mike w

[bobcat]

2nd Elk tag:  $66.50

And just for comparison....
2nd Deer tag:   $68.00

[pianoman9701]

   why does a master hunter get a second elk tag when others dont, they are not that special.  that is boloney, the state could make lots of money selling chances for a second elk.  how much does a second elk tag cost?   this is really an injustice to all wa hunters, letting a select few get more tags.    mike w

That's a topic for another discussion. This topic is clearly only about the rule change. Please feel free to start another thread. Thanks

[CedarPants]

I'm not familiar with the statistics - is/was it common for master hunters to regularly be taking a 2nd elk with these permits?  From the regs it looks like that is what one is led yo believe when applying - that this is indeed a chance at a 2nd elk.  I'm just not able to locate anything showing how many people are filling this tag as their 2nd elk vs. their only elk in any given year?

While the permit app likely wasn't too much, its kinda goofy that they make this change after paying to apply for the permit.  I can see how that would discourage some from going through the legwork to become a master hunter.

[WSU]

I wouldn't have as much problem with it if that was the rule from the start.  But, it sucks that I put in relying on the printed regs and then the ball is moved after I decide what to do and commit.

[pianoman9701]

Write a respectful email to Tracy and Sgt. Klein. I did and that was part of the emphasis.

[WSU]

That or I'm going to write to Lori Preuss, who is the WDFW rules coordinator, and ask her how WDFW complied with the APA.

[pianoman9701]

I'm not familiar with the statistics - is/was it common for master hunters to regularly be taking a 2nd elk with these permits?  From the regs it looks like that is what one is led yo believe when applying - that this is indeed a chance at a 2nd elk.  I'm just not able to locate anything showing how many people are filling this tag as their 2nd elk vs. their only elk in any given year?

While the permit app likely wasn't too much, its kinda goofy that they make this change after paying to apply for the permit.  I can see how that would discourage some from going through the legwork to become a master hunter.

Some of the tags are more likely to produce than others. I only apply for the Region 5 damage tag - on call basis. When you're called, it's to respond to a specific farm or property for a 5-day period. When I was called last year, there wasn't an elk on the farm for the entire 5 days. There were probably 600 elk within 2 miles of where I was, but all unavailable according to my specific assignment. Some may never get the call. I was called in February and was only half way down the list. Other tags are for an elk area or specific unit for a set season. Usually, in timber farms where there's a large concentration of elk.

[Skyvalhunter]

I see this more as a clarification and don't really have a problem with it.

[pianoman9701]

I see this more as a clarification and don't really have a problem with it.

It's a major change. Up until this change, unless there was a firearm restriction in the hunted area or during a specific season, you could choose any weapon to take the elk, with either tag. It's important, especially with higher profile hunts, that the shooter is using the method most likely to provide a quick and humane kill. The hunt I was on last year was right in the middle of a town. Although I consider myself a great bow shot, stuff does happen. An elk running around town with an arrow in its nose would not only give the program a black eye, but hunting in general. The whole purpose of the program is to avoid that.

[CP]

The weapons change sucks for the reasons pianoman points out.  I’m hoping that they change that back.
 
The 2nd tag being optional is as it should be.  I have no need for 2 elk and shouldn’t have to buy a 2nd tag to participate in the MH hunts.   

[ghosthunter]

I see this more as a clarification and don't really have a problem with it.

It's a major change. Up until this change, unless there was a firearm restriction in the hunted area or during a specific season, you could choose any weapon to take the elk, with either tag. It's important, especially with higher profile hunts, that the shooter is using the method most likely to provide a quick and humane kill. The hunt I was on last year was right in the middle of a town. Although I consider myself a great bow shot, stuff does happen. An elk running around town with an arrow in its nose would not only give the program a black eye, but hunting in general. The whole purpose of the program is to avoid that.

You hit it right on the head.

The method should be left up to the Master Hunter unless there is a safety concern.
2011 I was drawn but did not get the call till Jan. 2013. I hunted 2011 on a regular season Muzzy tag for elk. No elk was taken. I haunted the Master Hunt 2013 with a modern gun. (Took a cow) Because that was the best weapon for the job. I hunted elk in the fall again with the regular season muzzy tag. No elk.

The Skagit hunt is on private farm lands and  there are lots of places where one or the other weapon would not be a good choice.
They should leave it alone. These are two separate hunts with two different goals. One recreational the other damage control.

[Odell]

I applied for a very difficult hunt with a bow assuming I could use a rifle. Pretty frustrated about the change.

[Bob33]

The change in weapons restriction was uninentional and is not being implemented.

[CP]

The change in weapons restriction was uninentional and is not being implemented.

Good  news!

[pianoman9701]

This clears it up:

WDFW WILDLIFE PROGRAM
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
wildthing@dfw.wa.gov

Dear Master Hunter:

The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife will be making some clarifying language changes to the Master Hunter Deer and Elk Special Permits. If you draw one of these Special Permits, please take note of the changes listed below. The changes will also be posted on the Department web site on the Corrections to the Big Game Pamphlet page at http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/ .

The following two corrections will be made to the Big Game Pamphlet on both pages 37 and 58-59:

    Under the Master Hunter Deer/Elk Special Permit Hunts, the 5th column in the table should read: 2nd Tag Allowed (not 2nd Tag Required).
    Under Master Hunter Deer/Elk Special Permit Hunts, the following language should replace the language in the Notes section Any legal weapon may be used while hunting the following hunts unless otherwise specified in the hunt notes or required by the Hunt Coordinator. Only one animal may be taken under this Special Permit opportunity. For those Special Permit hunts allowing the purchase of a second tag, hunters can use either their first or second tag but are allowed to kill only one animal under the authorization of the Special Permit.  If a hunter uses their general tag and kills and tags an animal under this Special Permit, the second tag may not be used for the general hunting season.

The changes apply to both deer and elk Master Hunter Special Permits. The following scenarios illustrate examples resulting from the changes for elk:

    If a Master Hunter has an unfilled general elk tag and is called to participate in a Master Hunter Special Permit season, the hunter could hunt with the unfilled general elk tag.
    If a Master Hunter who has filled a general elk tag and is then called to participate in a Master Hunter Special Permit season, the hunter would need to purchase a second elk tag as long as that Special Permit hunt allows the use of a second tag.
    If a Master Hunter kills an elk during an early Master Hunter season and uses their first general elk tag, the hunter would not be issued another general elk tag for the fall general seasons.
    If a Master Hunter kills an elk during an early Master Hunter season and uses their Master Hunter second tag, the hunter would not be issued another Master Hunter tag for a later Master Hunter season.  The hunter may still have their general elk tag to be utilized in other appropriate seasons.
    A hunter may harvest only 2 elk per license year

Again, for those Special Permit hunts allowing the purchase of a second tag, only one animal may be killed in the unit under the authorization of the Special Permit. We hope this modification clears up some of the confusion related to the Master Hunter Special Permit hunts.  Thank you for your service and your interest in Washington wildlife.

Wildlife Program
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife