bullet drop?educate me

[kramman]

allright im getting various opinions here.let me see if i can answer some of the guestions here.yes i do have a range finder.i would love to shoot out to 300but where in the vacinity of tacoma is there a long range.ive been shooting out at tacoma sportsmen and their range only goes to 200.i dont plan on spraying and praying as some of you have suggested i have way too much respect for myself and the animal i am hunting that is why iam on here asking for some help from those who might know more then i.i plan on shooting 3 or 4 more times before i go but besides going out to the woods and trying to find an area where i can shoot to 300 i am pretty limited.plus i think the rifle hunters in my area would not appr. me sighting in my rifle right now in the middle of the woods.
kram

[demontang]

I would just sight it in for 200yd and be done with it. You would be 7" low at 300 which isnt that bad and would be an easy hold over.

[Curly]

I sighted in my scope to be 3inches high at 100.  I stretched it out to 200 and I am getting  absolutely no drop I am still 3 inches high?

I'd leave it where you've got it set now.  According to the ballistic table that Demontang posted, you should be set pretty close to what the table shows.  The table shows 3" high at 100yd and 3" high at 200 yd; then about 3" low at 300. 

range (yards)                 Muzzle    50         100     200      300     400     
Trajectory (265 yd. zero) -1.5        1.2     3.0       2.9     -2.6    -15.1

Like someone already said, you're going to be about 3.5" high around 150yds, but that's not too bad.  Anything out to 300 yards, you can just hold right on and you will be right in there. 

[Colville]

If you can consistently hit at 3 high at 200, you're done. The ballistics are what they are. Out to 300 you'll be no more than a couple inches under. Aim dead center no matter what range and whether a couple inches over or under your POA you're dead on. This way you don't have to do hold over you are point and shoot out to 300. Opinions vary but if I can get the whole trajectory of the bullet from barrel to my max range all within the kill zone of the animal and all from one point of aim on the game I take all the guesswork out of where to  hold (slope not withstanding). Of course this only works for me because I top out at 300 to 350. Guys who shoot much longer range have to work a different system.

I was posting when Curly did, What he said. 

[littletoes]

Sorry to be the stick in the mudd here, but.....

Regardless of what ANY program says, you SHOULD NOT shoot at game unless you have had the opportunity to try that very load/rifle combo at said distance.

If you can't get out to 300, then don't shoot at game at 300, or beyond.

Funny how us long-range guys stress this....maybe its because we work so hard at getting our own come-ups.

[kramman]

littletoes i would love to shoot out to 300 but i believe my options are limited on finding a range that i can shoot that far.
if someone knows of one w/in an hour of tacoma please let me know.if i can not find a range to shoot out to 300 i believe being 3 hi at 200 will be adaquate out to 300.i personally believe no one should shoot beyond 300 my 

[JoshT]

Funny how us long-range guys stress this....maybe its because we work so hard at getting our own come-ups.

Excellent comment!

[demontang]

I would make some time before season to go out and shot 300yd's if you leave the scope the way it is, there is a big dif between 200 and 300 when you are shooting of sticks and your heart is pounding. I was just out shooting 650yd tonight and learned how to use my mill dots better at higher powers. I think with long range shooting your can always learn something.

[high country]

from my expierience the charts are rarely more then close. I have futzed with em' while getting my 6.5-06 mapped. I found I had to screw with my scope height to get the traj to work. I shoot through a chrono with a very accurate rifle.

imo, buy up some bullets and time and go shoot your gun at known ranges in conditions you will hunt. that will pay huge dividens.

as for 130's......I shoot cheapo speer 130btsp's from my 270win. I am all for snazzy premium boolits, but every 130gr bullet in .277 dia was made to work at 3000-3100fps, so I can see no need to change. the deer I killed last week, a big bodied deer was killed with said bullet and at a pretty long range. he never took a step. I have killed big bears with the same bullet at 50ish yards and they too died right quick.

so while I think looking over bal charts is a good move, realize that it is only gonna get you within a minute or two.......two minutes at 500yds is enough to miss.

[dbllunger]

WOW,   Talk about confusion.  It is not that complicated.  All you need to know is your bullet BC (Ballistic Coeficient), Sight Height (Aim point above center of bore/barrel), and how fast the bullet is going (FPS).  I will give you any data you need as long as you and your rifle can shoot a true .5" group at 100.  Any rifle/shooter combo that is less acurate the data totally falls apart at range.  Sight in at what I give you and simply look at your data strip and drill em.  Let the gun geeks (guys like me) do all the shooting and work and just copy them.  I have made a lot of cash on bets based on math, and you do not need (but should) shoot at every range you might need to shoot at.  All you really need is data, accurate rifle, and good shooter.  2+2 =4 no matter what we try to make it different.     

[high country]

while you are doing the math, take a peek at the possibilitys of tangent change due to soa mis calculation in the sight height/angle. I agree it is 100% math, but joe shoots 100 rounds a year has to get mighty damn lucky to hit the numbers bang on first try.

so pretty much take a trig class or buy some bullets, most guys have the 3 hours to bang shells over a math class.

[littletoes]

dbllunger,  holding 1/2" at 100 yards is not the same as .5 MOA at 300 or farther. A rifle capable of one, may not hold the same at extended ranges. Yep, quite a few rifles do, but there are many more that just won't.
For instance, I have one that will hold 1/4 MOA to about 200 yards, but opens up after that, with another I've printed a 2 3/4" 5 shot group at 600 yards...go figure. Each is an individual.

kramman, there is Paul Bunyan at Puyallup (spelling? I've only been there for matches). That range goes to 600 yards. I don't think thats too far from 'ya. Just gotta look man. Make it a point to get out and actually shoot that far, and you just might be surprised.

I can just about make a safe bet too....most that just want to go out and shoot at game that far, with a piece of paper from somebody off of the net that has "come-ups" on it, and have never actually shot that far....AIN'T GONNA HIT *censored*. And if they do?? Pure-D-Luck, not skill.
And if/when you go to a range and shoot that far, shoot like you would in the woods. Standing, Sitting, kneeling, or prone. 
No benches, unless you're going to haul one to your hunting spot and shoot from it too.

THEN you just might come under the relization that if you should shoot at game animals at said ranges.


Time for the Positive?
I use a 10" steel gong...if you can hit that, regarless of range, your ready to hunt.
My 12 year old son hits it easily at 300, but we practice at that range. I use either the steel or clay pidgeons from 600 to 850. The wind can be a challenge, for sure.



The bottom hits are from my son using the wrong spot on his cross hairs, the two touching in the middle are from my .308, the others are my son's after a quick reference check from dad.
He shoots a .243 using 90 grn Nosler Bt's. He ain't so big (like dad I guess), so I wanted a light load that wouldn't beat him or his mom up. Yep, they both have thier own 700's in .243....
Good Shooting.

[norsepeak]

Bottom line is you gotta go shoot the distances you want to hunt...period.  Ballistics calculators can be very accurate, but they don't take into consideration differeces within each round or the ever changing atmospheric conditions...the only way to figure those variables out is to go shoot.  I've got a long range rifle (270 allen mag) that shoots .5 moa all day long, and a ballistics calculator that'll figure out exterior ballistics all day long, but when you shoot over a canyon or across a hill at long range things can get a little squirrely, and without actually doing that you would never know it.  When we shoot our 1200yard range, the calculator only gets you close...but not close enough for a cold bore one shot kill.  Having gone out and spent a lot of time shooting and fine tuning...means the gallon milk jug of water is in serious trouble on the cold bore 1200 yard mark!  And it sure is fun!

[Selkirk]

Kramman,

This is a little off topic but I would definitely do some shooting upon arrival in Wyoming.  Your point of impact can change dramatically on the high plains of Wyoming compared to Tacoma.  My buddy and I both had to re-zero on a Wyoming trip a few years back.  We also had been shooting at low elevation ranges in western Washington.  I always recommend checking your zero after a long drive, flight, etc.  One more thing, do some shooting at close range.  Not all wyoming game is shot at 300 yards.

Good luck.

Selkirk

[dbllunger]

OK...I missed the topic obviously.   I agree with the fact that you can not shoot only at 100yds, and then expect to go out and shoot an animal at 400yds.  There is a substantial difference in reality between 100 and 400.  I was only talking raw ballistics.  Yes you need to shoot at range to get used to long range shooting.  I just remember one training session with 35 shooters on line.  None had 600yd dope/come ups/clicks, or whatever you want to call them.  Did the math and only two shooters hit the 12" plate 5/5.  Oh and one of the shooters that did complete the series had never shot past 300yds. Only a guess will answer what two.   Accurate rifle, steady shooter, and simply hold the cross hairs in the middle of the target.   Personally I think 90% of the shooters/hunters have never really shot an accurate rifle.  So add a truely accurate rifle with a scope, and most shooters are good to 300 any day.  Now add in real world stress, excitement, field position they are still good IMO if they just shoot.  Oh, how many people have really shot a gun with a 2 or 3# tight trigger?  Just like before very few.  All of this adds up to accurate shooting. 
     Give me a day or two and I am totally confident that I could take any shooter with average skills, and they would drill a 400yd 10" plate the first shot and never take a shot past 100yds until the 400.  This could be done from a bench or hunting position.  Yes prone is a hunting position, and actually preferred by most.    The offer is there so take me up on it after the second week of December.  Yes you will shoot my rifle (Stock facory gun) if yours is not accurate enough.  If I am wrong the only negative is ammo burned and a better shooter.  If I am correct then at least admit that paper is a great teacher.