Will federal delisting impact state’s wolves?

[WAcoyotehunter]

I think it happened without the WDFW making the big effort to document the pack.  Population, reproductive success, ect...


I don't know who said the "6 packs" thing.  We should all know better than to trust a newspaper report or to consider it any kind of official documentation. 

[wolfbait]

I think it happened without the WDFW making the big effort to document the pack.  Population, reproductive success, ect...


I don't know who said the "6 packs" thing.  We should all know better than to trust a newspaper report or to consider it any kind of official documentation.

Do you ever think about what you Write WA-coyote?  Or do you just go with whatever flops into your brain at the time?

Answers like yours, show the treasures in documentation. In the 1980's and early 90's Defenders of Wildlife the USFWS and WDFW were doing the wolf push, article after article show this. But when confronted with the WDFW "first wolf pack" lie in 70 years, Conservation NW and WA-coyote pack water for WDFW and blame past history as phony? Where have I heard that phrase before?

I can post article after article on the early wolf push W-C, are you going to claim all of the newspaper article are phony? Guess where Tom Remington got the info for his article? 

[WAcoyotehunter]

So, the one article is your evidence?  That's the documentation needed to confirm 6 packs?   

The "6 wolf packs" was actually 6 reported wolf sightings that got misrepresented by an excitable reporter. 

Do you have more information about the 6 packs, or just the single news report?

[wolfbait]

So, the one article is your evidence?  That's the documentation needed to confirm 6 packs?   

The "6 wolf packs" was actually 6 reported wolf sightings that got misrepresented by an excitable reporter. 

Do you have more information about the 6 packs, or just the single news report?

Sooo WA-Coyote, what you are saying is the six wolf packs of the early 1990's  is just another Phony Scandal? And all the other wolf articles are what? More Phony reporters? How much does WDFW pay you?

[wolfbait]

Tell us again about the UPS truck "release"...  and about that big court case you had planned a year or so ago that was on the down low.  What ever came of that?

 As you know it wasn't a UPS truck but instead a USFWS truck. As for the lawsuits, there will be many I'm sure.

W-Coyote You have been packing water for WDFW for at least five years now, has Scott Fitkin offered you a job yet? You could be his head tracker, trapper. You would fit right in here in the Methow. I could even point you to where the Real wolf tracks are. But I suppose you would rather hunker down in the office with scotty, and shoot the chit about more habitat you could buy.
By the way W-coyote could you ask Fitkin about his lie of first wolf pack in seventy years, and get back to us! Think you can do that before obamacare kicks in?


BP>>I was in attendance at the WDFW meeting when the commission voted to end coyote hunting to protect the wolves in the Paysaten back in the 90's, I remember that day well. Unless they have destroyed those recorded tapes it's on record, that certainly contradicts WDFW claims that the Lookout Pack is the first pack in 70 years. 

That news story about the 6 packs back in 1991 also verifies that WDFW was claiming there were 6 packs of wolves then. They have lied to the people of Washington, either in 1991 or more recently, but one time or the other they clearly lied to us about wolves. 

You said it was a UPS truck... the feds or state in disguise.  We all clearly remember you saying that.

The "first wolf pack in 70 years" thing is a difficult one.  I think there were quite a few people that knew there were some wolves up there, but they couldn't (or wouldn't?) go survey and appropriately document the "pack".  I have an old paper on the howling responses of coyotes to calls and they mention getting a response from wolves in the Pasayten sometime back in the 80's.  It was never a secret.  They just never went through any process of documentation.

"You said it was a UPS truck... the feds or state in disguise.  We all clearly remember you saying that."

Actually what I said was a driver in a UPS truck saw the Wolf release, you seem to have your wires crossed once agin W-Coyote.

I have talk to this driver four different times, his story never changes, and by the way it was a USFWS agent that shook his finger at him and said: You didn't see what you thought you saw, the UPS driver said BS I just saw you releaseing wolves.

In a week this same UPS driver was changed to a differant route. I have talk to other UPS drivers in our area who back this up.

If you are going to tout info. W-Coyote at least take the time to get your facts right.

One more thing if the releasing of wolves ever goes to court, this guy will testifie along with several others. And I think in the end this will all come out. And you W-Coyote among others will be exposed for what you knew back when and what you know now and what you have tried to hide from the public eye.

You should be ashamed of yourself!

[CedarPants]

Honest question here and I'm not intending to take either side in this entertaining internet spat  , but if this

it was a USFWS agent that shook his finger at him and said: You didn't see what you thought you saw, the UPS driver said BS I just saw you releaseing wolves.

seriously happened, why the heck hasn't this

One more thing if the releasing of wolves ever goes to court, this guy will testifie along with several others. And I think in the end this will all come out.

happened yet?

[wolfbait]

Honest question here and I'm not intending to take either side in this entertaining internet spat  , but if this

it was a USFWS agent that shook his finger at him and said: You didn't see what you thought you saw, the UPS driver said BS I just saw you releaseing wolves.

seriously happened, why the heck hasn't this

One more thing if the releasing of wolves ever goes to court, this guy will testifie along with several others. And I think in the end this will all come out.

happened yet?

I spent a half day with an Okanogan commissioner this spring, I told him of several releases in the Methow Valley, and he told me of several others I didn't know about. He said without pictures it is very hard to win a lawsuit aginst WDFW/USFWS as it is his/her/ words against theirs.

Their are other irons in the fire right now that may produce the truth.

[bearpaw]

I think it happened without the WDFW making the big effort to document the pack.  Population, reproductive success, ect...


I don't know who said the "6 packs" thing.  We should all know better than to trust a newspaper report or to consider it any kind of official documentation.

I know reporters can get things wrong, sometimes even by accident, I also know we cannot trust some poeple in WDFW. For what it's worth, I think this 90's wolf issue proves someone in WDFW is misrepresenting wolf information. I was at the WDFW Commission meeting where the commission closed coyote season, I know this happened and remember the WDFW testifying there were wolves in the Paysayten then, I cannot remember how many or if they specified. It should all be on tape, they recorded every meeting, unless it mysteriously disappeared.

[pianoman9701]

Senator Murray's response to an email asking to push for delisting:

"Dear Mr. Wallace:

Thank you for contacting me regarding your support for the delisting of Gray Wolves from the Endangered Species Act. I appreciate having the benefit of your views on this matter.

The views of Washingtonians are very important to my work. I will keep your thoughts in mind, and I encourage you to stay in touch. If you would like to know more about my work in the Senate, please feel free to sign up for my weekly updates at http://murray.senate.gov/updates.  Again, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

Sincerely,
Patty Murray
United States Senator "

I'm confident that our Senator in tennis shoes will advocate for delisting - NOT!

[turkeyfeather]

Senator Murray's response to an email asking to push for delisting:

"Dear Mr. Wallace:

Thank you for contacting me regarding your support for the delisting of Gray Wolves from the Endangered Species Act. I appreciate having the benefit of your views on this matter.

The views of Washingtonians are very important to my work. I will keep your thoughts in mind, and I encourage you to stay in touch. If you would like to know more about my work in the Senate, please feel free to sign up for my weekly updates at http://murray.senate.gov/updates.  Again, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

Sincerely,
Patty Murray
United States Senator "

I'm confident that our Senator in tennis shoes will advocate for delisting - NOT!

That couldn't be anymore of a canned kiss off letter if she tried.

[Kain]

Just because I like the links to old wolf info.

http://www.nps.gov/noca/naturescience/wolves2.htm

In 1990, adults with pups were seen in the Hozomeen area. This was the first known reproduction of wild wolves in Washington State in at least 50 years! Since 1990, biologists have seen three separate groups of adult wolves with pups in the Cascades. Wolves mate in February or March. About 63 days later a litter averaging six pups is born.

[AspenBud]

My theory goes like this.

1. Wolves have always crossed in from Canada.

2. Over the years there has been a significant number of wolf hybrids bred in this state. In fact the dog that was attacked in Twisp, this dog...

http://s20.postimage.org/j75l5gaql/IMG_7649.jpg

is a wolf hybrid from what I understand.

To create a wolf hybrid means that someone out there had wolves on hand. Given that some breeders/owners aren't the most responsible folks around it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that some got loose and were never found over the years. Look at Florida and their boa/python problem. Heck look at what someone ran over in Michigan...

http://d2om8tvz4lgco4.cloudfront.net/archive/x1806218720/g12c000000000000000bcbe2360fc1a1d147270214e92f6c6a93e79adf3.jpg

Yep, that's a python that someone turned loose before it was run over and shot by the state police there. Pet snakes aren't the only thing that owners release without thought.

In short, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that they have been here all along. Wolves coming in from Idaho, Montana, et al probably just supercharged their reproduction rate and in some cases they probably arrived in areas more friendly to them in terms of food. Their discovery and the ESA also changed things since it meant a lot of guys probably stopped shooting them where before they were assumed to be coyotes or big dogs running deer since they weren't supposed to exist here.   

[pianoman9701]

Now here's the reply from Jaime Herrera Beutler. I would marry her.

"Dear Mr. Wallace,

Thank you for contacting me regarding endangered species protections for the gray wolf.  It is an honor to represent the people of Southwest Washington, and I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

After being afforded protections under the Endangered Species Act (ESA), we have seen gray wolf populations successfully increase.  The goal for recovery of the wolf was a population of 300 wolves and 30 breeding pairs.  Today there are over 1,700 wolves in the area.  It is encouraging to see the restoration of a beautiful animal that was nearly extinct.  Since the ultimate goal of the ESA is to get species to the point of no longer needing the level of protection provided under the Act, by definition the gray wolf should no longer be included on endangered species lists.  The ESA should be reserved for animals that face a direct threat of extinction, otherwise the statute is weakened.  Ultimately, I believe it is important to balance the need for famers and residents to protect their livestock and livelihoods with the level of protections afforded the gray wolf and other previously threatened species. 

Thank you again for contacting me on this important issue. I invite you to visit my website at www.jaimehb.house.gov for additional information or to sign up to be kept up to date on these issues. Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,

Jaime Herrera Beutler
Member of Congress"

[bearpaw]

   there is some wisdom in that reply