Leaving montec in the dust!!

[mountainman]

As a bow hunter for 35 years, pro shop owner, and bowtech for many years, and with no affiliation to any broad head company, I am a firm believer of the Montec so many seem to dislike here. Have had nothing but impressive kills with them with well placed shot, as MOST broad heads out there would have done just as good. I settle on the Montec for several reasons... Many years ago, a gentleman by the name of Emery Losielle did a test comparing several types of heads, namely a Zwickey cut on impact, a Thunderhead trocar style (chisel tip), and a Barrie Rocky Mountain Razor conical (like an inverted ice cream com), and measured the foot pounds to completely penetrate a piece of elk hide.. The results were interesting! The Razors took over 30#'s, Thunderheads in the mid 20's, and the Zwickey's less then 5#'s! On the flip side, the Trocar style would tend to crack the soft bone on a rib or shoulder hit where the Zwickey's would tend to stop in the soft bone. I have found that the Montec with its three blade served as a compromise between ease of penetration AND bone splitting ability on less then perfect shots. Plus the fact that they are one piece, precision machined for one of the truest spinning heads out there! With most replaceable heads with 5 or more parts to put together, there is more margine of error to have a head that is un balanced. Kinda of the same as a Partition bullet built with more steps involved then a matchking built with less steps involved. I have extensively tested this concept myself and found it to be true..my 2 cents...

[TommyH]

Hmmm neat trick rad

  I will try to even them all out with that bit of good advise!

[huntnnw]

Shuttle T! best flying head I have every used for long ranges.

[CoryTDF]

Well I went with the Slick Tricks. It really came down to cost. I found 50/50 on those and the STL's. All the tests i saw showed them doing better than the Montecs.

[TommyH]

Slick Tricks for me again!

[RadSav]

Many years ago, a gentleman by the name of Emery Losielle did a test comparing several types of heads, namely a Zwickey cut on impact, a Thunderhead trocar style (chisel tip), and a Barrie Rocky Mountain Razor conical (like an inverted ice cream com), and measured the foot pounds to completely penetrate a piece of elk hide.. The results were interesting!

  Only someone as old and crazy as me would know Emery.  That's funny!  He sure got a lot of press for a few years and wrote a couple funny books.  But his science was heavily based on conjecture and supposition.  The static force test was one of his classics.  Completely rubbish from a science stand point, but you had to appreciate his dedication and enthusiasm.  Especially enjoy it when he talks about his "Monster" bow.

I remember him being a bow review writer for some off the wall publication.  I think it was "Archery" magazine if I remember right.  Too bad Norb Mullaney came along and made him look like a buffoon.  Because I really enjoyed the entertainment value of his writing and his little so called tests.  Those were fun times.

That's a good memory lane you took me down.  I honestly thank you

[MLBowhunting]

Lol you Hoyt bashers lol    its not the bows fault that it was operator error lol. My broadhead choices would be Savora then Steel Forces Phat Head and last the Shuttle Ts

[mountainman]

Many years ago, a gentleman by the name of Emery Losielle did a test comparing several types of heads, namely a Zwickey cut on impact, a Thunderhead trocar style (chisel tip), and a Barrie Rocky Mountain Razor conical (like an inverted ice cream com), and measured the foot pounds to completely penetrate a piece of elk hide.. The results were interesting!

  Only someone as old and crazy as me would know Emery.  That's funny!  He sure got a lot of press for a few years and wrote a couple funny books.  But his science was heavily based on conjecture and supposition.  The static force test was one of his classics.  Completely rubbish from a science stand point, but you had to appreciate his dedication and enthusiasm.  Especially enjoy it when he talks about his "Monster" bow.

I remember him being a bow review writer for some off the wall publication.  I think it was "Archery" magazine if I remember right.  Too bad Norb Mullaney came along and made him look like a buffoon.  Because I really enjoyed the entertainment value of his writing and his little so called tests.  Those were fun times.

That's a good memory lane you took me down.  I honestly thank you
[/quote

Lol, Radsav, you are funny. The op was on Montecs, I am trying to interject a point, and as "rubbish" if you can disprove the above test, please do. Yes, he did do some other crazy testing, but the OP is not about crazy old guys (or as I retread, maybe it is?) lol! The discussion is revolving around penetration and durability. Had a Savora fail miserably on a small mulie buck many years ago, and I don't tend to give my hunting equipment any second chances, and now, not many heads I will lay my trust in. Montecs are one of the few!

[Beardo]

Shuttle t's are the best ive shot dropped a cow in her tracks once.

agreed.  Shuttle t's are awesome.   Montecs are my second favorite

[pianoman9701]

magnus snuffer ss anyone?

Snuffers are an awesome broadhead.

[sirmissalot]

I love the montecs. Maybe not the sharpest but I had a complete pass through on my bull last year, and hes dead!

[blackveltbowhunter]

   I dont beleive the OP was knocking montecs  Or that I have seen posts on here bashing them.... But I haven't read every post closely so if I missed it, apologies. I have shot the montecs off and on for several years. And I trust them. never had one "fail"  in fact my fastest kill was a 5 point bull that fell to a montec. However after dissecting the arrows path of travel, it was apparent ANY head would have achieved similar results. And I personally think their are better heads.

  While relativley "new" compared to many on here. In 15 years I can only think of one BH malfunction I would label complete failure. ( My hunting partner was using the equipment, as pre season testing had me so skeptical I was afraid to shoot even small game with the stupid thing ) There have been broken blades, bent blades, lost blades, and smashed tips. But " ability to cut enuff good stuff to kill on the way through" is how I view broadhead performance...... the more, cleaner, and faster blood vessels get split = the better the wound bleeds, the faster the wound bleeds, the longer it takes for the wound to clot, and ultimatley the quicker the animal dies. To me sharper is better in my mind. Always has been, in fact while I have shot many heads I have only hunted with 3. Muzzy in my early years, always with brand new blades. Strykers and Montecs. I like the construction of the Montec, they fly like darts. But my ability to get and retain sharpness has caused me to waffle with their use, I have tried everything to get them scary sharp, to no avail. Out of the package sharpness to me is atrocious. Once I get them reasonably sharp it bugs me they are dull on the other side of the animal at which point makes me wonder, When did it become dull? Or if still in the animal is it cutting effectivley?  While the Stryker on the other hand is scary sharp from the get go, and although I have had one bent blade, and a smashed tip ( although i think this may have been from a rock on the backside of the bull) the blades remained wicked sharp which tells me it did its job all the way through.   

   

[mountainman]

Yes they do need sharpened out of the pack. Running them on a fine diamond stone, then I take and ron them on the bottom of a ceramic dinner plate, or even strop them on the top edge of a car door window.. they can get crazy sharp, but you do need to be able to sharpen them to that point...

[CoryTDF]

Montecs stay together very well as I said I have only ever used them to kill the 10 animals that I have taken with a bow. Once I helped a friend with a wounded cow and I accidentally used my grouse arrow that had a 100 grain muzzy that i found stuck in a tree. Well at 45 yards that arrow with that old crappy muzzy went all the way though and out the other side and off into the great beyond.
Montec are good enough but i have had to throw away EVERY one after I shot an animal as they were bent to the point of no repair. Not saying they are not good just saying there has to be better and I hope I made the right choice with the Slick Trick Mags that I just bought.

[RadSav]

Lol, Radsav, you are funny. The op was on Montecs, I am trying to interject a point, and as "rubbish" if you can disprove the above test, please do. Yes, he did do some other crazy testing, but the OP is not about crazy old guys (or as I retread, maybe it is?) lol! The discussion is revolving around penetration and durability. Had a Savora fail miserably on a small mulie buck many years ago, and I don't tend to give my hunting equipment any second chances, and now, not many heads I will lay my trust in. Montecs are one of the few!

Actually I don't think CoryTDF's original post was about Montecs at all.  I believe it was a statement that he is leaving them in the dust and looking at SlickTrick or Toxic and asked for other viable option advise.  Maybe I read it wrong 

Static force tests are scientific rubbish because the test is conducted in an environment exactly the opposite of the way a broadhead tipped arrow actually works.  It simply shows how much build up of static pressure is required upon a broadheads point to break a certain media threshold.  If it was a true test of broadhead penetration it would also show that axe heads and shovel blades would penetrate better than conical pointed broadheads which obviously is not true.

When a broadhead shot from a bow contacts certain media it is not in a state of constant energy increase as in a static force test.  It instead is in a state of constant energy loss.  The static threshold has already been exceeded the moment the arrow leaves the string.  From that point forward penetration is determined by the arrow and broadheads rate of deceleration as apposed to acceleration in a static force test.  Point configuration has only as much effect on penetration as it's total percentage of drag related to shedding velocity/energy which is extremely minute.  In fact the entire ferrule generally has almost no effect on overall energy transfer or loss.  Number of blades, blade angles, blade width, size of vents, configuration of vents, configurations of trailing edges in vents and back of blade, and sharpness of the blade all exceed the rate of deceleration effect than does point configuration unless that point is extraordinary in size percentage to the overall broadhead surface area.

And most of all penetration itself with todays equipment on game animals of North America has little effect on the efficiency of your archery gear to quickly and humanely harvest your game.  That job falls 100% upon your heads sharpness and it's ability to stay sharp.  Reduction of oxygen related stimulation to the blood platelets assists in prolonging coagulation as well.  This is one area not to be overlooked as it too plays a larger role on the expiration of your quarry than does static force, penetration and point configuration.

Now to the point of Montec.  The head has good angles and almost certainly the best trailing edges of both the vents and back of blade.  So it is not a bad head at all if you are one of the few that can sharpen them extremely well.  However, most folks have neither the talent or the patience to sharpen these 120 degree angle blade edges properly.  There is never a bad time to support great people of this industry like Lou Grace of G5.  For some that might mean leaving Montec in the dust and shooting the wonderfully designed and built Stryker instead.  Same point construction combined with well manufactured strip ground blades.  It is a great option for those wanting to improve terminal performance while supporting good people and maintaining static force efficiencies.