4-point rule 117/121

[dscubame]

Again it is to increase deer population NOT for managing antler genetics or breeding large bucks.

[grundy53]

Whitetail are very different from mule deer. A 4 point whitetail is pretty much equivalent to a2 point muley. Generally their second year thats what they are.

sent from my typewriter

You need to do some more research on wt's.  Everything I can find says a wt generally has 2 or 3 points per side his second year and sometimes more.  Which sounds a lot like a mule deer.

Have you ever hunted whitetails? If have then you would know and you wouldn't have go read about it. I don't know about the south or east. But I do about the northwest. Nothing like mulies.

sent from my typewriter

[PA BEN]

Again it is to increase deer population NOT for managing antler genetics or breeding large bucks.

If you want to increase population stop doe harvest and control coyotes, bears, cats and wolves.

[grundy53]

Again it is to increase deer population NOT for managing antler genetics or breeding large bucks.

If you want to increase population stop doe harvest and control coyotes, bears, cats and wolves.

I agree with this also. In conjunction with the Apr...

sent from my typewriter

[whacker1]

Again it is to increase deer population NOT for managing antler genetics or breeding large bucks.

If you want to increase population stop doe harvest and control coyotes, bears, cats and wolves.

While I agree, the primary tools to control Cats & Bears have been taken away.  And furthermore the Cats take has been limited in numbers.  No tools exist at this time to control wolves.  And we don't have enough people spending time to control coyotes.  So without those tools you have to take additional steps and see if they work.

[huntnnw]

Bears are easily hunted in E WA .. Problem is probably 25% of the deer and elk hunters even try and hunt them. Your part of the problem if your not hèlping

[Sitka_Blacktail]

More good reading.

 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fxa.yimg.com%2Fkq%2Fgroups%2F2969364%2F1893388056%2Fname%2FMule%2BDeer%2BAntler%2BPoint%2BRestrictions%2Bin%2BBC.doc&ei=l9P7UYqjLKOtigLr6oDoBw&usg=AFQjCNGELBaoyYgpVQhTAeAyz9AbgStZYQ&bvm=bv.50165853,d.cGE

The money quote....

"Many agencies have used antler point restrictions (APRs) in an attempt to balance expectations of hunters with biological considerations for the deer population.  A common perception among hunters is that APRs can lead to both more deer and larger antlered bucks but scientific evidence rarely supports this assertion (Carpenter and Gill 1987; Erickson et al. 2003).  For example, Colorado experimented with APRs in 8 game management units for 7 years and found only marginal benefits to buck:doe ratios in some situations and no substantial increase in the proportion of mature bucks (Freddy et al. 1993).  Similar findings of little to no improvement in buck/doe ratios using APRs have been determined in Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Wyoming and Utah.  An additional problem of using APRs is that illegal kills can increase, such as reported in Montana where illegal kills increased to 18% of legal harvest following implementation of an APR"

The illegal kills usually result from people shooting first, then finding out the animal was sub-legal. Alaska has had this problem since it went to a spike/fork - 3 or 4 brow tine - 50 inch rule for moose in many areas.

[turkeyfeather]

Bears are easily hunted in E WA .. Problem is probably 25% of the deer and elk hunters even try and hunt them. Your part of the problem if your not hèlping

I agree with you. I don't hunt bears cause I don't like the meat and I hate shooting something I'm not gonna eat. Same reason I don't duck hunt.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Another quote from the British Columbia study.

"In conclusion, we summarize reasons why we suggest this APR has been successful at maximizing hunter opportunity while sustaining mule deer populations.  Firstly, this season structure is a combination of any-buck and four-point season and is not exclusively an APR.  This combination serves to maintain hunter opportunity, ensures harvest is not focused only on older age classes of bucks, and limits harvest during vulnerable periods. "

They use a mix of any buck and a 4 pt rule to protect the older bucks for the rut. Washington's rule puts all the pressure on the larger/older bucks and does it pre-rut. BC's rule makes more sense to me.

[dscubame]

Again it is to increase deer population NOT for managing antler genetics or breeding large bucks.

If you want to increase population stop doe harvest and control coyotes, bears, cats and wolves.

Yep agree.  Many many many factors.

[Bigshooter]

Sitka it doesnt matter that every state besides WA has tried apr and says that it doesnt work.  If you live in NE WA apr does work.

And if you live in NE WA you are apparently an expert on whitetails.

[buckfvr]

Lets just clean the slate on 121 and 117.  Make them both identical to 101 for all deer seasons.  The sooner the better.   


 

[Jonathan_S]

Lets just clean the slate on 121 and 117.  Make them both identical to 101 for all deer seasons.  The sooner the better.   


 

[buckfvr]

Id bet within the next couple years, the late modern season will be on the chopping block anyway.....if the problem persists...........at the very least, it will be by permit....

[dscubame]

4 point rule has resulted in over a third less hunters and almost half as many days hunted during the season which dramatically reduced the harvest numbers which left more deer in the unit, no argument in that. 

All this other spew that Sitka keeps throwing out is in relation to completely different agendas.  Has the antler restrictions not worked with the goal that these studies had in mind, perhaps. 

/The fact remains the APR in the case of 117/212 units has been a successful tool in the goal of leaving more deer alive by reducing the human hunter harvest.  Again there are many, many, many other factors in dealing with deer population that also need to be addressed but for the strict goal to increase deer population in relation to hunter harvest the APR has been a success.  How can it not with almost 50 percent less human hunting in the units?  Spin other issues all you want but this statement is fact based on WDFW harvest and hunter reports as previously cited in this thread.