4-point rule 117/121

[grundy53]

 

[bearpaw]

To much food.  This area has had bad winter kill before has it not?  Isn't winter kill some of the reason they went to apr?

Not sure.  Unusually deep snow results in the lack of access to food in the high winter kill years.  It is not a lack of food or too many deer eating limited amounts it is the snow restricting access to the food.  The deer come down to the lower land and when the lower land has 3 -5 feet they are screwed.  Like in 1995 (I think it was 1995)   No idea how a APR decision would be swayed if at all.

The back to back winters of 08 and 09, snow depth prevented deer from getting food and water in 121......deer yarded up along hwy 25, snow was deep all the way to the Lake shore.  Many deer died along hwy 25 and on the lake shore.  ( along with most other areas of 121 )

This played into the decision to apply apr.  Result, less hunters after a deminished resource.  Because of that, more of the remaining deer have survived the last few hunting seasons,  each followed by mild winters.  Like this year, last few have had early green up, and deer pulled through easily.  Many of the local annual deer camps have been empty or close to it......

Matters not what this study or that has concluded, we have a couple more seasons of it before change can come, so we shall see.................

  very accurately stated

[gun-dog]

I think the 4-point rule is great.  I have seen the scrub bucks that would otherwise be killed survive to become nice mature deer.  I do not know what the numbers were like a few years ago, but I can say that they have been improving over the last couple of years.  I fully support letting the smaller bucks walk and give them a chance to grow up and hopefully breed a couple of does. 

I am in favor of keeping the 4-point rule indefinitely simply because of the mature bucks that I have watched grow up. 

[WildlifeAssassin]

APR's are a band-aid on a bullet wound. The wolves have devastated the deer in the area of 121 I used to hunt.

[Jonathan_S]

APR's are a band-aid on a bullet wound. The wolves have devastated the deer in the area of 121 I used to hunt.

I don't think many people believe APR is a cure to the "bullet wound" but in light of the wolves, winters, and cougars that are unbridled in these units, APR does contribute at least.

It would be incredibly dumb to say, "well since wolves are killing deer indiscriminately, we should just remove APR"

Think optimistically about predator control and keep APR for a while, if we can get some form of hound hunting back for cats and wolves delisted...if only...if only...

[boneaddict]

Only saving grace is that whitetails seem to adapt better to wolves than muledeer do, a lot to do with wolves tendency to sight hunt.   

[buckfvr]

APR's are a band-aid on a bullet wound. The wolves have devastated the deer in the area of 121 I used to hunt.

The only place I can think this might be true would be in the very south end of 121. Id be curious where you " used to hunt ".  We are seeing more deer, and we are spread out covering a large area with cams, have pics of everything BUT wolves.

[bearpaw]

APR's are a band-aid on a bullet wound. The wolves have devastated the deer in the area of 121 I used to hunt.

I don't think many people believe APR is a cure to the "bullet wound" but in light of the wolves, winters, and cougars that are unbridled in these units, APR does contribute at least.

It would be incredibly dumb to say, "well since wolves are killing deer indiscriminately, we should just remove APR"

Think optimistically about predator control and keep APR for a while, if we can get some form of hound hunting back for cats and wolves delisted...if only...if only...

If we could convince WDFW to quit restricting the cougar harvest then more cougar would be taken by boot hunters, every NW unit closed early last winter. Historical harvest was far higher than the cougar quotas they are placing on our units

[snowpack]

If we could convince WDFW to quit restricting the cougar harvest then more cougar would be taken by boot hunters, every NW unit closed early last winter. Historical harvest was far higher than the cougar quotas they are placing on our units

Is there an alternative method for controlling the cougars in your area?  I was talking to an old Indian guy about a month ago that was selling cat and bear rugs and he was telling me all about all the cats they've been killing with hounds.  For the areas we were discussing, it sounded like they were taking more than WDFW has quota for non-tribals (and there were still plenty of cats!).  This is kind of out there thinking, but is it possible for the deer/elk hunters to help fund/train the tribes for using hounds to kill off a bunch of cougars?  Just do some quick cougar cleanout.

[boneaddict]

THey already practice that management on the reservation.   The Colvilles are quite bright when it comes to wildlife management.   I don't know what legal rights they have in the North half in regards to predators.  As far as I know the Spokanes have a smaller area.  They do some predator management with trapping, including wolves.......(I believe that was posted this last year)

[finnman]

I just met a friend of a friend who lives between Loon Lake and Waitts Lake in unit 117, he said he has steadily been seeing more large bucks on and around his parcel for the last few years. Maybe it is a natural deer numbers rebound or APR product, hard saying. He said he saw the largest buck ever this summer on his driveway, he was up to 6 points on one side when it jumped in the brush...he was still counting points too! He seems to think it is working.

[boneaddict]

 

Darn anecdotal evidence.  Too bad we couldn't chart that.  Then the haters and disbelievers might believe it.

[Skyvalhunter]

Or he is just feeding the deer at his property.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

If you want more older, bigger bucks, why didn't they make it spike/2 pt for 5 years? Then all those young bucks with real potential would have been protected. You'd be seeing way more big bucks by now.

[buckfvr]

If you want more older, bigger bucks, why didn't they make it spike/2 pt for 5 years? Then all those young bucks with real potential would have been protected. You'd be seeing way more big bucks by now.

When was the last time you were over here for any length of time ?  When was the last time you hunted here ( 121/117 ) ?  When was the last time you were able to witness first hand what goes on here from season to season, year to year ?? When did you last count bucks before and after hunting season, especially those you would be familiar with and have pictures of ??

I have a strong suspicion you enjoy the sake of argument, any argument.