4-point rule 117/121

[Sitka_Blacktail]

One of the problems with APRs is mis-identification of sub legal animals. Many of the animals you are trying to save get shot anyway by hunters who make mistakes or just don't care or have the attitude, get the animal down, then figure out if it's legal. Some turn themselves in, some don't.

Here's a story about this very problem which I think I alluded to earlier. It's about moose on the Kenai Peninsula in one unit (#15). Of the known kills this year, 30% have been non legal animals. 12 out of 40.  Let that sink in. Then realize that for sure there are others that are not found. And these are large animals compared to deer. How many sub legal deer do you suppose are shot and left to rot or feed scavengers when the shooter realizes he's shot an illegal animal? Deer sized game is even less likely to be found.

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/135437-Sub-legal-moose

[boneaddict]

hard to compare a deer to a moose.   50 inches versus 49 is harder to tell than say 3 point versus 2 point.  Most ethical legal hunters don't seem to have a problem anyways with growing that third point.   An animal like a moose, looks giant even if its a little bugger........   Yes two points get killed (muledeer), but I guarantee a lot of them survive to be bigger that would be easy tablefare.   

[grundy53]

hard to compare a deer to a moose.   50 inches versus 49 is harder to tell than say 3 point versus 2 point.  Most ethical legal hunters don't seem to have a problem anyways with growing that third point.   An animal like a moose, looks giant even if its a little bugger........   Yes two points get killed (muledeer), but I guarantee a lot of them survive to be bigger that would be easy tablefare.

 

[Jonathan_S]

I'm switching my position to anti 4 pt minimum.  I hunted 117 all day Saturday and could only find 4 pt or better bucks, I even passed on one before killing another      

 

I talked to some goofball who said "with this 4 pt minimum you have to kill a trophy to get anything at all."  I, for one, don't miss the any buck rules for 117, 121.

Delist wolves, increase cougar harvest methods, and give out 25 bear baiting permits per GMU annually.  Then we could go back to any buck   

[boneaddict]

Out of 20 some whitetail bucks I filmed the last week, I think One was less than 4 points......maybe 2. 

Pretty much still has to have milk on its lips 

[buckfvr]

How does Kenai moose correlate with 117/121 whitetails   In a relevant way...........

I guess its for the sake of argument, but by god theres no need to go see whats really going on in these woods.........

[Jonathan_S]

   Milk on his lips

I am not great at judging ages of bucks but I think the buck I killed was 2.5 years.  It seems that 90% of bucks older than 1.5 have 4 pts.   

[Jonathan_S]

How does Kenai moose correlate with 117/121 whitetails   In a relevant way...........

I guess its for the sake of argument, but by god theres no need to go see whats really going on in these woods.........

Hey!   

They did a similar study with a deer herd in Pennslyvania or Transylvania or something 

They discovered that APR doesn't do what I want   

 

[boneaddict]

I would say 2.5-3.5, leaning towards what you guessed.  Hard to tell by body proportions with only the one perspective.   I think the same about 4 point whitetails and your age assessment.  Thats why I kind of laugh at those that think its a big deal.   Restrain yourself one minute and kill something with twice as much freezer meat.



There are studies done all over.  Look at the one done on moose turds and how they correlate to the sex of the animal.

[buckfvr]

Theres plenty of 1 1/2 yr old 8ptrs hanging around..............more than there is spikes or forked horns.

Studies are generally agenda driven, either to prove ones point ( or attempt to ), or to discredit someone elses.

[Cleve]

I would say don't waste your time in 117/121.  There are only a few does and a spike combined in those units. No bucks worth shooting. 

[Jonathan_S]

Restrain yourself one minute and kill something with twice as much freezer meat.

   there is much more meat on a 2.5 + year old buck.  Not 150# but still 

There are studies done all over.  Look at the one done on moose turds and how they correlate to the sex of the animal.

Hah!     I'll never forget that.  I've always given a little nibble instead but that gets boring pretty quick

[snowpack]

How does Kenai moose correlate with 117/121 whitetails   In a relevant way...........

I guess its for the sake of argument, but by god theres no need to go see whats really going on in these woods.........

It's commentary about how animals are left by poachers that didn't verify their target first.  Some people out there get so excited at seeing a buck/bull and blast first/verify after.  Think it causes a lot of spike/true spike confusion in central and eastern Washington and is cause for leaving animals to lay.  Then the guys go continue hunting until getting a legal animal they can put a tag to---so how many animals actually die in order to tag one?  Kind of the same deal for bulls on the westside--guys shoot 3 pts and when they get to them see that only one point is above the ear; so they leave it and look for another elk.
The comparison is valid because there are guys out there hunting whitetails that will see a big buck and see a few of the tines but not count--that is valuable time that could be spent shooting right?  So they'll kill a big 3 pt and walk away from it because it isn't legal--and go kill a 4 (or more) pointer.  So instead of stopping at one dead deer they've killed two or more.  Not the best approach to rebuilding a herd.  The extent of this for deer vs moose, don't know--I'd imagine a moose is harder to measure than a deer is to count.

[buckfvr]

WTF is a big 3pt ???That would be ten times harder to find than a huge 4pt........

[Jonathan_S]

The comparison is valid because there are guys out there hunting whitetails that will see a big buck and see a few of the tines but not count--that is valuable time that could be spent shooting right?  So they'll kill a big 3 pt and walk away from it because it isn't legal--and go kill a 4 (or more) pointer.  So instead of stopping at one dead deer they've killed two or more.

I see what you're getting at but there are very, very few whitetails that this mistake could be made with.  I would submit that a "big 3 pt" whitetail is extremely uncommon.