mud flow winter kill

[elkhuntingcouple]

we were out scouting the Loowit, and toutle, mud flow ext. We heard from 2 different people that 41% of the bulls died last year in the mud flow. Where would I find if this information is true?
We went up to the Observatory and received some hand outs on where you can hunt in the area, you cannot hunt any of the monument. There is the pumis flats hunt (4) people only get this hunt. And you cannot ride horses into the area if you do get an elk. The man there at the desk said most of the hunters don't bring out the meat, that it is just to hard of a pack. WHAT? I'm like why would you not allow horses in? he said you have to get a special permit even to walk off the trail. This is all done through our Government since we took money to watch how the blast in 1980 is effecting the land. What a bunch of BS. So we allow 41% of the animals to die but won't let anyone hunt. I am really confused on this one. made me mad, I know its not his problem but it is all of ours.

[pianoman9701]

There was a big winterkill, but there are still plenty of elk up in there. 41% sounds like a rumor.

[CP]

Sounds like BS to me.

Call the biologist for the area; they will have the winter kill info.

I hunted the Pumice Plains area a couple of years ago and I packed out my kill.  So did everyone else that I know who has hunted the area. 

[headshot5]

What I want to know is why would it only kill bulls?   

[pianoman9701]

It doesn't only kill bulls, but mature bulls are especially susceptible to starvation in the winter after having lost weight during the rut. This does create a proportionally high number of bulls to cows suffering winter kill.

[dewandgin]

I was part of the mortality study group that counted the winter kill on the mudflow and we did count over 70 winter kills (i believe it was 79 but not positive) only a very small percentage were bulls. Less than 10 total most were cows and calves.
 It was the third largest total since they started the count

[elkhuntingcouple]

Thank you for all the information, You never know when you hear something. to bad about the huge winter kill, makes me sad just the same.

[pianoman9701]

I was part of the mortality study group that counted the winter kill on the mudflow and we did count over 70 winter kills (i believe it was 79 but not positive) only a very small percentage were bulls. Less than 10 total most were cows and calves.
 It was the third largest total since they started the count

That's encouraging for the bulls, though. They normally make up 20% of a healthy herd. We did see a lot of cow skulls up there a couple of weeks ago. 

[Practical Approach]

I was part of the mortality study group that counted the winter kill on the mudflow and we did count over 70 winter kills (i believe it was 79 but not positive) only a very small percentage were bulls. Less than 10 total most were cows and calves.
 It was the third largest total since they started the count

I assume that the mortality study group only counted mortalities on the WDFW owned acerage on the bottom?  So, roughly 2700 acres of which not all is surveyed.  Lets say 2000 of it is surveyed so that means there were approximately 1 dead elk per 25 acres?   

[Blacktail Sniper]

Tagging, interesting thread.

[Alchase]

Can some one explain something to me please, all around this state elk heards move to where the food is at a given time of year. All the areas surrounding the Mud flow see the same snow leveles, same food sources and as far as I can see the elk in those ares are not starving.
Why are th mudflow elk not capable of moving out of the valley to find food?

[Austrian Hunter]

 

[pianoman9701]

If you've been in there, the refuge is flanked by hills, so it's the lowest point unless the elk travel downstream quite a ways toward towns. The weather is milder but the forage isn't as good as it should be for a winter range, with Scotch broom and mouse ear hawkweed and St. John's wort choking out the grasses. There's a bit of tansy in there, as well. Maybe that kills them, too??? Just guessing out loud.

[Alchase]

Every time I go there, the elk are all over the place from the valley floor to the top of the mountain north of the observatory. I just can't figure out why they do not migrate to the food. Or have we created a situation where they have become dependent on the winter feed that was or is supplied?

[pianoman9701]

Every time I go there, the elk are all over the place from the valley floor to the top of the mountain north of the observatory. I just can't figure out why they do not migrate to the food. Or have we created a situation where they have become dependent on the winter feed that was or is supplied?

I don't think food is supplied, but not sure. I think they've become dependent on the grasses. The noxious and invasive weeds are a fairly recent phenomenon, within the last 15 years or so. It may just be a migration habit that's being passed down.