My targets....your opinions please??

[bassquatch]

Thanks for all the tips everyone!  That's what I was looking for 

This was my first and still only hunting rifle and I bought it from Wade's and they mounted everything at the time and bore sighted it. To be honest I have not messed with it since. My next question would be where's a GOOD gunsmith near the Arlington area? I would like to get the thing gone through and maybe upgrade the mounts and rings? At the very least just have it taken down, looked through, reassembled and re bore sighted. Then I could head back to the range with various 165gr and see if things improve?

I have heard of the 1 shot zero but do not have a place to shoot 300 yards? Kenmore's range has a 300 yard area but I believe it's members only? Was my first time there...

I know you said your scope mounts are good, but did you lap the rings, and if not do you know your scope is mounted perfectly straight? If it's got a slight bend in it, that will cause your adjustments to not work as they should. With my Leupold VX-III, when I move it 1 click right, the point of impact moves 1/4 inch right, and when I move it 1 click up, the point of impact moves 1/4 inch up, just as it should. If your scope isn't doing that, then I'd suspect something wrong with the scope or something wrong in the way it's mounted.

That's what I would expect as well?

I don't think it's too bad.  It is factory ammo after all.  With handloads, you could probably tighten up the groups and be happier, but you may just have to experiment with different factory loads til you find one that your rifle really likes.

The red in the second target is really good, then one of the yellow is right in with the red.  Maybe the barrel was starting to warm a bit?  Have you had good luck with 180gr Fed Premium w/ Partitions before?

That's what I have been using the most and have had good luck with them. I was concerned about the barrel warming issue.

Those shots are fine.
The second pic, after the target change...your cold-bore shots are perfect, and that's what puts animals down.
Honestly, a R700/Leupold/Partition group shouldn't look any better than those.

Thanks! I'm starting to think the cold bore shots are fine but I'm having an issue with barrel contact and possibly pressure points once it's warm? I will get there earlier next time and try to wait even longer between rounds.

Thanks again everyone.

[wastickslinger]

You would have saved me a lot of reading if you had first said you were shooting a 30-06. I would have then looked at the pics and said it doesnt get much better that that.    Sorry Im a 7mm fan and I had to say it.

[bassquatch]

You would have saved me a lot of reading if you had first said you were shooting a 30-06. I would have then looked at the pics and said it doesnt get much better that that.    Sorry Im a 7mm fan and I had to say it.

No worries, I expected a couple jabs 

[Easy-E]

Those shots are fine.
The second pic, after the target change...your cold-bore shots are perfect, and that's what puts animals down.
Honestly, a R700/Leupold/Partition group shouldn't look any better than those.

Thanks! I'm starting to think the cold bore shots are fine but I'm having an issue with barrel contact and possibly pressure points once it's warm? I will get there earlier next time and try to wait even longer between rounds.

Thanks again everyone.
[/quote]

I am convinced that the sporter barrels on most off-the-shelf hunting rifles are susceptible to barrel heating issues. I had a Remington 721 in .30-06 that would only shoot 2.5" groups; so I ran a dollar bill under the barrel and found where it was touching; and sanded it down. I floated the barrel thinking that would fix it (floated barrels are allegedly supposed be better than a touching barrel, right?!?) and things got much worse. I couldn't shoot any kind of a group with that rifle after floating it.    I had to shim the front end to get it shooting half way decent again. Some of the rifle manufacturers design those sporter barrels to have a slight upward pressure at the stock fore end to "help" with accuracy. I don't remember if the Rem 700 xDL have a fore end pressure point or not, but I wouldn't assume that knocking of some of the bedding material will tighten up your groups. A good smithy giving it a once-over is probably a good idea.

Cheers!

[Easy-E]

...I cleaned the barrel before each target ....

I was giving this a little more thought. Barrel cleaning can make a difference in accuracy as well. For example, if some gun oil is left in the bore, it could cause a different trajectory than a dry barrel. And if you're only cleaning with a powder solvent, you might have a copper fouling problem. One night after scrubbing my barrel "clean", I ran a swab with janitorial ammonia down the barrel and couldn't believe the amount of blue goo that came out...

Just some thoughts.

Cheers!

[bassquatch]

...I cleaned the barrel before each target ....

I was giving this a little more thought. Barrel cleaning can make a difference in accuracy as well. For example, if some gun oil is left in the bore, it could cause a different trajectory than a dry barrel. And if you're only cleaning with a powder solvent, you might have a copper fouling problem. One night after scrubbing my barrel "clean", I ran a swab with janitorial ammonia down the barrel and couldn't believe the amount of blue goo that came out...

Just some thoughts.

Cheers!

Good advice! I only ran a bore snake through twice between targets. I'm going to really tear it down and clean it this weekend! Still looking for a reputable gunsmith in decent driving distance?

I'm going to hit the range one more time with 4 different types of 165gr and the targets that were suggested and go from there. I was contimplating replacing the stock but I want to leave that to my son when he gets it!

[LEN]

Okay for the scope itself, after I make an adjustment on older scope for that matter on a new scope I slap the vertical and horizontal adjustments just to make sure the scope sets the number of clicks I've put in. I also be an old survey instrument man always in my adjustment with the turn in. That means if you're going to be turning counterclockwise go past and then turn it back to the position you want and if you're going clockwise stop at the position you want. Another thing I thought of where groups how was the sling Bunton on the forehand if it hits your bags it can cause an erratic group, always slide your weapon back to its first sighting position of your first shot.

[bassquatch]

Okay for the scope itself, after I make an adjustment on older scope for that matter on a new scope I slap the vertical and horizontal adjustments just to make sure the scope sets the number of clicks I've put in. I also be an old survey instrument man always in my adjustment with the turn in. That means if you're going to be turning counterclockwise go past and then turn it back to the position you want and if you're going clockwise stop at the position you want. Another thing I thought of where groups how was the sling Bunton on the forehand if it hits your bags it can cause an erratic group, always slide your weapon back to its first sighting position of your first shot.

I did the turn past and then back thing, I finally just made adjustments 1 click at a time. I do not have a front sling Bunton as I do not run a sling and the rifle was in the same position the entire time. Thanks for the input 

[j_h_nimrod]

I forgot about you saying the barrel/stock gap tightened up when the rifle warmed up. I would try to keep it so that you can always slip a dollar through the channel. The intermittent contact can certainly harm accuracy.

On the flip side you might also consider adding some shims right at the tip of the barrel channel to put a little (very little) upward pressure on the rifle barrel. This can help settle some rifles. I have my Rem 700 .280 Ackley IMP set up this way and a .17 Rem as well.

[bassquatch]

So I took some of the advice from my last post and decided to give the old rig a second chance before tossing it in the wood chipper...

I shot today at the same range but switched to Winchester Ballistic Silvertips 30.06 SPRG 168 grain. I also switched to the recommended sight-in targets. I am still not at all happy with the results  I feel I could do this good with a wrist rocket and some marbles!

This deer and elk season will be this rifle and scopes last for me. The rifle will go to my son and he can do what he wants with it, the scope will go back to Leupold immediately. I will not take a shot greater than 150 yards at this point as I just do not trust the weapon 100%. I would not be worried taking a 100 yard ethical shot on an animal, but beyond that I lose faith rapidly!

At this point I will be buying a Tikka or Sako in .270 and mounting a Nikon or Vortex scope on it after the hunting seasons are over this month and if I go back to this range and shoot better groups than this then as far as I'm concerned my son won't see this rifle, the wood chipper and scrap yard will!

Thanks to everyone for their previous input! I tried to use all the tips you gave me I could.

The color of the text corresponds to the group fired:

[Cap.Silver]

Maybe you could try laser boresighter and save yourself few bucks on ammo .Other option is to ask someone who is better shot to shoot couple of groups . It could be that you're too tight after that many shots .... that could explain the last target ,otherwise you pretty close . 

[bassquatch]

Maybe you could try laser boresighter and save yourself few bucks on ammo .Other option is to ask someone who is better shot to shoot couple of groups . It could be that you're too tight after that many shots .... that could explain the last target ,otherwise you pretty close .

Recoil was not an issue at all! I have weekdays off, the 1 guy I personally know that can out shoot me 5 times out of 10 works weekdays... My other friends don't shoot rifles often enough that I would trust their opinion.

It's too close to the season for me to get any work done on the rifle, especially with my upcoming work schedule. At most I would have 1 day to site-in next week and that's it before season, not to mention trying to find a reputable shop in my area that has time this time of year?! It kind of is what it is at this point.... I should have started this in May, not August. Work got busy and unfortunately I am at this point. I have thought about getting the new gun and scope now and sighting it in next week and hunting with it but that's not realistic....

[hoyt2002]

Did the gun shoot better than this before? If it did and you have shot alot in the last 13years I would say copper fouling might be your issue.

[bassquatch]

Did the gun shoot better than this before? If it did and you have shot alot in the last 13years I would say copper fouling might be your issue.

Yes it did. I have cleaned it regularly and put maybe 20-40 rounds per year through it. This topic started because I fell while hunting and the gun rattled barrel tip to buttstock a couple times with my hand underneath it where the scope attaches. Since that incident I have worried about the scope possibly being the culprit? It doesn't seem to make 1/4" adjustments anymore? I spoke of this in the original post on page 1. The rounds seem to "dance" around the paper? So my options seem to be 1) dump money into a 13 year old gun doing a barrel, trigger, stock and getting the scope tested OR 2) start over with a Tikka or Sako and new scope? I just don't see myself shooting crappy when fully braced with sand bags and a solid rest? I'm not a flincher either.

I figure If I give my son this gun I know he will go to town on it so that may just be what I do, let him spend the money making it what HE wants....

Unfortunately the timing for replacement right now is NOT good, so I will have to wait until after the season sometime for the new purchase and make due with this setup... 

[hoyt2002]

I'd try a new scope then if you got the time. If that don't work you have the new one already for the new rifle you pick up later.