Outfitter tipping?

[TRB]

I will using an outfitter this year for a drop camp hunt into my own hunting area...The wrangler will take me in, come back and pick me up in a week and haul my gear and kill and me out.  Is it customary to tip on top of the fee already paid to the outfitter?  I am assuming the wrangler is not the owner of the outfitter company.  If so?How much?

[Eli346]

That would be a good question for Bearpaw. I've never used an outfitter so I don't know and have always wondered. I know that most of them work their ass off for their clients and I wouldn't want to insult them. I hope you get the answer on this thread as I'm checking it out.

[Bob33]

It is customary. How much is less well defined than tipping in restaurants, but I would suggest that 5% to 10% is not at all unreasonable if you receive great service.

[Tbar]

I don't know what the expectations are but I did a pack trip about 10 years ago, the price was 1800(which the outfitter gave me a deal), I tipped $250  the wrangler seemed happy. This was a drop camp too. In hindsight I think about how hard he worked I should have tipped a little more.

[Dave of TDG-Farms]

I am a pack goat breeder located in the Tri Cities. As mentioned, www.northwestpackgoats.com is an outstanding resource site. www.napga.org is the North American Pack Goat Association and is the foremost in organized authority in whats happening in the pack goat world. They do a pack goat rendy every year. Last year it was near white pass and this year it was down near Colorado and Wyoming. There is also http://www.packgoatforum.com A great forums where many of the top names in pack goating answer questions. Between these sites, they should be able to point you in the right direction for pack goat rentals. With that being said, I personally do no know of anyone in Washington State who does pack goat rentals. I did sale 5 prospects to a couple from the west side of the state who intended to start a rental outfit but the sizable investment it woulda took turned out to be to much so they decided on raising meat stock instead. With some effort, I was able to relocate those 5 boys to a new home in Missouri.

To answer a few questions about just how fast/far a pack goat can go, it really depends on conditioning and load weight. Pack goats are typically not ready for max loads until they are 3 years of age. But without proper training and conditioning before hand, they will not be able to carry anything near their max weight of 25% of their body weight. Here, I get prospects out on the trail as early as 1 month old. They carry nothing at this time and there is no conditioning training going on. The goal is get them used to loading, leaving the farm / home, following out on the trails, loading and returning home. If the weather allows I start to water and loud noise train them at about 3 months of age. Granted most prospects that I raise for sale are ususally gone before this kind of training can start. But I do have buyers who like to keep them here until they are 5 months of age just for this extra training AND its at this age where we have them castrated by our vet. This way when they bring them home, they are well on their way with their training. At 6 months of age, a dog pack will fill on a pack goat prospect. Again, no weight is added. You are simply teaching them to accept a pack. Which they do almost instantly. In a month or so you can add things like light jackets or maybe a 20 oz bottle water and a couple of sandwiches to the pack. Nothing over 5 lbs about. At roughly 10 months old to a year OR when they reach 125 lbs body weight, they should just be big enough to be fitted with the standard pack saddle. Panniers will typically hang way to low as they are designed for full grown goats. But you can fix just about anything to the saddle horns. And again, they are not ready for loads yet. But once they are used to the saddles weight, you can again, start to add light weight items. Each goat is differnt and depending up on how often you have taken him out and conditioned him, will reflect on where his current ability is. Conditioning should be focused more on terrain and length of hikes then packing. At about a year and a half old or 175 lbs. you can start to add some weight. Still wanna keep it light though. By over loading your pack goat at this time you could damage him. Think of a pack goat as an athlete. Training and conditioning is vital to his success. But over doing it can end his career the same way a blown knee can end a football players if pushed to hard to fast. 15% of his body weight on a well conditioned pack goat should be the tops at this age. And not just right off but added little by little over time. You will get a feel for  your pack goat and his limits. Which Ill explain later.  By two years of age and or 200 lbs, your pack goat should be well conditioned and be able to carry 20% of its body weight. Thats 40 lbs max. But dont let these number rule you. Different conditioning and terrains will dictated actual load caps. By 3 years of age, a pack goat has reached 90-95% of his total growth size and weight and will be a fit and ready as you have conditioned him to be. His training will have covered, load noises such as gun shots, water way traversing, standing to be saddled / loaded, where his place is on the trail, stop/stay return commands or anything else you wish to teach them in terms of vocal commands. Goats are amazingly smart animals able to learn a number of different commands.

Conditioning and weight loads: As mentioned, a condition goat will be able to carry closer to his target max load then one that isnt. But lets say you have a well conditioned 250 lbs 3 year old pack goat. His max load would be about 60 lbs. But just because he can doesnt mean he should. As mentioned in the previous posts was the question on how far and fast a goat can hike. Well that totally depends on his load and the terrain. But if you consider your own pace totally maxed out on load weight, that will give you some idea. People can carry what? 40%-50% of their body weight max? How far and fast could you travel over rough terrain? Pack goats are ment to help with YOUR burden. It is your responsibility to trim the fat off your gear. For example, lets say you have everything  you want to take with you to make a hunting camp. And all that stuff weighs 280 lbs. You have 4 well conditioned 250 lbs goats. Your goats followed loaded are able to carry a total of 240 lbs. Leaving you to carry 40lbs. Not a fun hike for you but doable. Not a fun hike for the goats at all if you are going to be going up and down hills/mountain or trail blazing. Your progress is going to be slow at best. You could take up say 10 lbs of weight off of each goat but now you really are not having fun. So you have two choices. Trim the fat off your gear or get more goats Personally, I would never load more then 40 lbs on a goat and thats no a nice semi flat easy hike. Because I want to make good time. And if I were in some seriously hard climbing and hiking, Id keep loads maxed out at 30 lbs. I just totally depends on terrain. Now there is something very cool about goats. They will actually tell you if they are over burdened. And they do that by laying down. There should be at least a 5 or 10 minute break every hour on the trail. At these breaks, watch your goats. If they instantly lay down then you know they are near their max weight for the terrain. A goat that isnt maxed out will be browsing as you are walking and will most likely also browse on these breaks. This is the simplest and best way to tell how your goat is handling its load. Now on the other hand, a goat that lays down while in the middle of a hike, is over loaded and should have weight removed from his panniers.

So if you want to move fast and cover a lot of ground, under load your goats. Trim the fat on your gear and or leave stuff you dont need at home. The more effort you put into your gear, the more rewarding it will be when you are out on the trail. And if done right, you can cover as much ground in a day as you want with your pack goats keeping pace the entire way without limits. What makes pack goats the ideal choice is, you dont have to carry food for them with you. They will eat / browse as they walk. And if you set up your camp in the right place, their will be more then enough food to sustain them during the entire time. Goats can also go longer stretches without water if they are loaded right. But choosing a camp site that has access to clean water is a must if you want to keep weight down to a minimum.  A knowledgeable pack goater will run their hike as efficiently as possible. Driving as close to your camp within a days hike unless you are looking to keep on the move. But if you are going to be using the goats to pack out game as well, its going to take two trips back and forth. So the closer you are to your vehicle or house, the better. OR have enough goats to be able to pack out both your camp and your game at the same time. Most dedicated pack goaters I know who use them to hunt with run a string of 4 but the few master hunters I know who use em, run a string of 8 because they have more opportunities at bigger game more often and can warrant the costs of upkeep on them.

Now, this is just one persons opinion, mine. When it comes to goats, you will find opinions as far apart as if they were from Republicans and Democrats. So I like to tell buyers and other pack goaters alike, use what works best for you. Do research and determine your own methods and opinions. As a breeder and lover of goats, I tend to baby them more then say a avid hunter who is just looking for help packing stuff in and out or hikers who are on a month long hike to see the wilds.

How many goats does it take?
4 full grown goats can carry out just about any deer.
8 full grown goats can carry out just about any elk.
10 full grown goats can carry out just about any bear (within reason).

[steen]

We tipped our wrangler on our Pasayten trip last summer for a drop camp.  Ten of us went and we tipped about $20 a piece.

[alecvg]

I've worked as a guide.  For drop camps, generally $2-300 is normal. 

[bearpaw]

In my experience the average tip runs 5% to 20% and often is a higher percentage for less expensive hunts. It all depends on how happy you are with your guide and the experience. Guides don't make that much and appreciate every dollar that you choose to give them.

[Boss .300 winmag]

How about fishing trips?

[alecvg]

How about fishing trips?

I have guided fishing as well, from my experience, about the same.

[RadSav]

How many goats does it take?
8 full grown goats can carry out just about any elk.
10 full grown goats can carry out just about any bear (within reason).

I want to hunt bear where you do

[Dave of TDG-Farms]

LOL ya, I guess I shoulda said for the heaviest ones. Was a bit vague