Since Wolves

[Sitka_Blacktail]

You see there isn't much worse than a person on your own team who won't listen to his teamates, who creates dischord and who fractures the team. 
The most damage always comes from within, well inside your own protective walls.

Just because we're all hunters doesn't make us teammates. People who promote breaking the law (SSS for starters), or bring negative attention to hunters by name calling and disrespecting non hunters with differing views, or trying to cyber-bully other hunters for having a different view on issues are not my teammates. You didn't draft me and I didn't volunteer. There are a lot worse things a hunter can do to the hunting community than asking other hunters to quit the hyperbole and exaggeration and work within the system to get things done.

[KFhunter]

Hey if a little team building bromance is too much for you call it something else 
It's not like I printed up a bunch of shirts.

Fact is, if you support wolf hunting and management, them I'm in your side.  That's all I was trying to get across.
If you want to get things done in the system you need numbers, alienating other hunters doesn't swell the ranks.

[KFhunter]

I just don't think all of the rhetoric really helps our cause is my main point.  The liberal politicians in washington make it difficult for WDFW to manage wolves like most of us would prefer...but WDFW is not the enemy.  The eco-groups and their complaining to liberal legislators and governor are what is preventing more desirable wolf management.  If folks want to turn up the heat...focus it on all the deception and lies from groups like Defenders of Wildlife...write and call the wolf loving legislators and governor and governor appointed commissioners and tell them how unhappy you are with wolf management and that you vote!  That will be more effective than accusing wdfw of various conspiracies and getting other hunters spun up on such stories.

"WDFW is not the enemy"

Really? What part of WDFW do you work for? Do you know how many wolf packs WDFW confirmed before the wolves started killing cows? Do you believe there is one wolf pack in the Methow Valley as WDFW would have you believe? WDFW are just another finger of the USFWS, run by environmentalists. Do your home work!

Darn, you caught me.  I am actually the director.  There are 97 wolf packs in the Methow Valley and I have to go report to the USFWS now so we can hear from Green Peace on how many wolves they want me to release from the secret kennels in the mountains behind locked gates where we raise hundreds of wolves secretly imported under the guise of being hybrid dogs.   

How the these hybrids get in the nooksack?

After a lengthy conversation with a biologist about wolves in the Nooksack a member here sent me these 2 pics taken in the Nooksack... Biologist says they are "hybrids"....

[bigmacc]

saw 3 up on sweetgrass in 2011...1 wk prior to thanksgiving during a scouting trip..seen lots of tracks also....oddly enough we seen 0 deer eccept for the ones around peoples houses farther down cub creek.

that year we seen very few deer tracks also,the snow had been on the ground awhile and hardley any deer sign..

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Hey if a little team building bromance is too much for you call it something else 
It's not like I printed up a bunch of shirts.

Fact is, if you support wolf hunting and management, them I'm in your side.  That's all I was trying to get across.
If you want to get things done in the system you need numbers, alienating other hunters doesn't swell the ranks.

I have no problem with wolf hunting or management.  But if you're idea of management is to make all wolves disappear, you're banging your head on a brick wall, cuz it isn't going to happen.

And if you want to get things done you need more than other hunters on your side, you need non hunters on your side too, because they far outnumber hunters. What Idahohuntr was trying to say is, it doesn't help gain non hunter support by being unreasonable or radical. There's a reason non hunters as a whole don't like PETA and see them as a joke at best. PETA takes radical and unreasonable stances and it turns people off. Many in the hunting community do the same thing. Anyone who does that is not on my side.

[KFhunter]

Hey if a little team building bromance is too much for you call it something else 
It's not like I printed up a bunch of shirts.

Fact is, if you support wolf hunting and management, them I'm in your side.  That's all I was trying to get across.
If you want to get things done in the system you need numbers, alienating other hunters doesn't swell the ranks.

I have no problem with wolf hunting or management.  But if you're idea of management is to make all wolves disappear, you're banging your head on a brick wall, cuz it isn't going to happen.

And if you want to get things done you need more than other hunters on your side, you need non hunters on your side too, because they far outnumber hunters. What Idahohuntr was trying to say is, it doesn't help gain non hunter support by being unreasonable or radical. There's a reason non hunters as a whole don't like PETA and see them as a joke at best. PETA takes radical and unreasonable stances and it turns people off. Many in the hunting community do the same thing. Anyone who does that is not on my side.

I wrote this a couple posts up

I myself support state managed wolf hunting and other control methods.  I know they are here to stay and accept that, I've never called for complete annihilation.

[bearpaw]

Had the elk disappear from my trail cameras twice this year.   Once for 2.5 weeks this summer, and again starting two days before the archery elk season.  Hunted Rim Rock unit for years and never had this happen previously.  FYI, one of my cameras had over 1300 pics of elk in week before season opener, and then two days before season started it went completely blank for entire season.  Even after the heavy rainstorm we had up there, no elk tracks what so ever! 

While we were out hunting, one guy had six wolves come under his tree stand; two adults (one of them collared) and four juvenile wolves. 

Damn things are expanding everywhere!

ET

I know a guy that was involved in one of the big studies about wolves and cougars. He told me there is documented proof that when wolves move into a drainage everything, even cougar start moving out of the drainage.

[KFhunter]

exactly right Bearpaw.


That's why we have hunters saying "omg!! the wolves killed everything!! there used to be deer/elk all over this area last year"

then another hunter who's seeing plenty of game in the same GMU and thinks "hmmm I don't what all this wolf hysteria is about, I see plenty of deer/elk"

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Had the elk disappear from my trail cameras twice this year.   Once for 2.5 weeks this summer, and again starting two days before the archery elk season.  Hunted Rim Rock unit for years and never had this happen previously.  FYI, one of my cameras had over 1300 pics of elk in week before season opener, and then two days before season started it went completely blank for entire season.  Even after the heavy rainstorm we had up there, no elk tracks what so ever! 

While we were out hunting, one guy had six wolves come under his tree stand; two adults (one of them collared) and four juvenile wolves. 

Damn things are expanding everywhere!

ET

I know a guy that was involved in one of the big studies about wolves and cougars. He told me there is documented proof that when wolves move into a drainage everything, even cougar start moving out of the drainage.

So the just of that is, the animals are still there, not gone. They just moved or changed their habits to avoid the wolves.

Hunters need to adjust their game plan accordingly. I used to see this all the time in Alaska. The predators can only be in so many places at one time. Figure out where the prey animals have moved to and there you go.

[KFhunter]

Elk are being bumped all winter long, they don't have a chance to do meaningful browsing or conserve energy to winter out.  If you followed a small herd of Elk and you could see where they'd lay down every chance they could, then the wolf tracks would come in and off they go again running.   

No time to stop and browse, they are harassed almost 24/7.  The Elk weaken and the wolves feed, bump and run over and over.

If you want to see the true story get out there in the winter, in the Elk ranges when the snows are belly deep.


Herd sizes are taking a big hit, but if your the lucky hunter who happens to be in the drainage the Elk ran into to avoid the wolves a drainage or two over you won't notice unless you hung in there long enough to see the wolves come in and your drainage then vacate.   

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Funny how those herds aren't decimated in Alaska which has more large predators than any other state.

-And funny how when Europeans first came to America the game herds were just fine even with all the predators. Humans are the only predator that has reduced game animals to a level where hunting had to be restricted. The reason we even started having game laws was to bring herds back from devastation caused by hunting AFTER most large predators were removed from the lower 48.

Now if you want to look at the natural order of thing, herds of prey animals moving to avoid predators is one of nature's ways of preventing herbivores from staying in one area and and causing damage to their habitat. It also helps prevent animals from congregating too much and spreading disease. Think brucelosis, blue tongue, chronic wasting disease and others.

[JLS]

Sitka,

You're forgetting, those were the kinder and more peaceful wolves that lived in harmony with everything.

[JLS]

I just got off the phone with an old friend that works for Montana FWP in one of these supposed "predator pit" areas.  I was asking him about potential elk hunting spots, and we had a very candid conversation about deer and elk numbers.  The overall synopsis of his thoughts were this:

Predators have had a negative impact on recruitment and populations.

Winterkill several years ago had a very big detrimental impact on recruitement and populations.

Numbers of both deer and elk are steadily improving.

Calf and fawn recruitment is steadily improving.

The quality of hunting is still very good.

Outfitter clients are regularly seeing elk.

Elk and Deer harvest numbers have stayed relatively steady and are not showing and significant downward trends.

Hunter participation has dropped.

Wolf numbers have decreased.

The perceived number of wolves is much greater than the actual number of wolves.

People that still get out and hunt hard and hunt smart kill very good animals.

People who were bad hunters before wolves are likely still bad hunters now, except now they blame wolves instead of weather, other hunters, bears, lions, Native Americans, the moon, the sun, etc.

Toby Bridges is a complete hack.

This is worth whatever you paid for it.....

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Sitka,

You're forgetting, those were the kinder and more peaceful wolves that lived in harmony with everything.

+

Yup today's wolves are a super vicious lot created by greenie scientists to ruin hunting for us blood thirsty hunters. And they can only be killed with a silver bullet.

[wolfbait]

18 years of facts on the ground have proven that the USFWS, IDFG, MT, WY, OR and WDFW- state game agencies are liars where the Illegally Introduced Wolves are concerned.

We the People didn't have to do anything. The Wolves proved David Mech, the world renowned wolf specialist was a liar, he was even forced to admit he lied to further the wolf agenda. The Canadian wolves have made liars out of everyone who pushed them.

In the past W-H  said it was good that the pro-wolf crowd ask questions! But now the wolves have answered all of the questions, and still we have those who claim to be ignorant


The environmentalist who have made millions with the wolf lie, are now moving to the wolverine.

More Habitat? More lawsuits? $$$$$$$$$$$$ And the ignorance continues!

http://nwsportsmanmag.com/editors-blog/calling-bs-on-a-wolf-story/
Andy Walgamott
October 25, 2012 at 9:17 am · Reply
It’s very appropriate for wildlife advocates of all stripes to speak up in their defense — hunters, anglers, birdwatchers, the wolfies, urban, suburban, rural, etc., etc. A quote that’s been circulating of late points out that even if we’re all suspicious of each other, it’s a helluva lot better than if we were apathetic over the natural world:

“I’d much sooner have a world filled with people who are so vitally concerned with wildlife that they fight all the time about it than a world in which nobody gives a damn,” said Shane Mahoney at Idaho Fish & Game’s Wildlife Summit.

But the problem that my article gets at is that this wolf reintroduction story that Wolfbait is circulating is a flat-out lie and hurts the above efforts in the Methow Valley.

His fantasy aims to create an air of mistrust with the agency that has actually focused a ton of its energy, time and money in the valley to do what? Buy lowland ranches/undeveloped property from willing sellers to set it aside as crucial winter range for the state’s most important mule deer herd. They’ve done a fantastic job ensuring that the migratory and local animals have a place to live in a beautiful valley that’s highly attractive to getaway home buyers. Below the national forest there are now 31,000 acres along the sides of the valley from Mazama to Carlton set aside and which primarily benefit the deer I hunt every fall.

Besides the suspicious name, Wolfbait’s actions are counterproductive. And they have the potential to be economically harmful to a region that depends, partially, on hunter revenue in fall. We’ve seen in the Northern Rockies what the mere whiff of the word “decimate” applied way too broadly and eagerly to game herds by those with agendas has done to nonresident hunter numbers, though to be fair increased license prices and the recession are also to blame.

You can be rightfully angry at fish and game departments for any number of good reasons, but being angry and making up stories about nefarious activities that are completely implausible is not helpful.

Defending those who lie is not helpful either.

AW
NWS