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Author Topic: Since Wolves  (Read 85330 times)

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #75 on: October 06, 2013, 06:25:11 PM »
I THINK WE KNOW WHO LIED, AND WHO HELPED PUSH THE LIE, ANDY.

Offline mountainman

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #76 on: October 06, 2013, 06:52:16 PM »
Fact is, go to the areas in the Methow where wolves are seen, and what the deer herds are like in those areas....anyone can by into things they read..I believe what I see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears....wolf bait has more insight then most one this forum. Ask just about anyone who lives, hunts, and has grown up in the area if you want honest observations...the rest of you, we'll, keep your shades on, you sound like most that like to argue for the sake of arguing ....any other locals with opinion?
That Sword is more important than the Shield!

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #77 on: October 06, 2013, 07:31:59 PM »
Even if they allowed year around hunting with no bag limit (Coyote rules) and allowed body grip traps/snares the wolves would thrive - we couldn't get them all, not even close.

What would happen however is we'd have smarter wolves with a healthy fear of humans.   

WDFW got a taste of that chasing around the cattle killing wedge wolves, they had to have a radio collared "alpha" and a helicopter to get small portion of the wedge wolves.  Anyone outdoor type person living in the wedge knows the WDFW are full of crap, heck I came across wolves just weeks after they were supposedly eliminated, WDFW has since retracted their statements they "killed the wedge wolf pack" because they didn't even get half the pack.

Not only that but there are several different packs.
 


Offline wolfbait

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #78 on: October 06, 2013, 07:55:32 PM »
Even if they allowed year around hunting with no bag limit (Coyote rules) and allowed body grip traps/snares the wolves would thrive - we couldn't get them all, not even close.

What would happen however is we'd have smarter wolves with a healthy fear of humans.   

WDFW got a taste of that chasing around the cattle killing wedge wolves, they had to have a radio collared "alpha" and a helicopter to get small portion of the wedge wolves.  Anyone outdoor type person living in the wedge knows the WDFW are full of crap, heck I came across wolves just weeks after they were supposedly eliminated, WDFW has since retracted their statements they "killed the wedge wolf pack" because they didn't even get half the pack.

Not only that but there are several different packs.
Idaho Wolf 2013-2014 Hunting / Trapping Season
 
Updated: October 1, 2013
 
Trapping is closed.
 
By Hunting = 33  By Trapping = 0  Harvest total = 33
 
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/hunt/?getpage=121
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
 
Montana Wolf Hunting/Trapping Season Status
 
Updated: October 4, 2013
 
Trapping is closed.
 
By Hunting = 16  By Trapping = 0  Harvest total = 16
 
http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/planahunt/huntingGuides/wolf/

An environmentalist running the USFWS who is now the CEO of Defenders of Wildlife, who stole up to 70 million $$$ from hunters providing funding for wildlife, has managed to kill most of the wildlife around her Illegally introduced wolves.


Offline Ridgeratt

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #79 on: October 06, 2013, 07:56:23 PM »
Even if they allowed year around hunting with no bag limit (Coyote rules) and allowed body grip traps/snares the wolves would thrive - we couldn't get them all, not even close.

What would happen however is we'd have smarter wolves with a healthy fear of humans.   

WDFW got a taste of that chasing around the cattle killing wedge wolves, they had to have a radio collared "alpha" and a helicopter to get small portion of the wedge wolves.  Anyone outdoor type person living in the wedge knows the WDFW are full of crap, heck I came across wolves just weeks after they were supposedly eliminated, WDFW has since retracted their statements they "killed the wedge wolf pack" because they didn't even get half the pack.

Not only that but there are several different packs.

Balderdash I say!!! :tinfoil:

Offline bigmacc

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2013, 07:57:54 PM »
Fact is, go to the areas in the Methow where wolves are seen, and what the deer herds are like in those areas....anyone can by into things they read..I believe what I see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears....wolf bait has more insight then most one this forum. Ask just about anyone who lives, hunts, and has grown up in the area if you want honest observations...the rest of you, we'll, keep your shades on, you sound like most that like to argue for the sake of arguing ....any other locals with opinion?
Im not a local but someone who has spent over 40 years hunting,fishing and hiking the valley and learning(and still learning) the deers habits,haunts,migration routes and when i hunt them i try to think like them.The time i spend in the woods either hunting them with my weapon or with a camera i'm thinking like the bigest,badest buck in the woods and considering time of year,weather etc where should i be at that time. My primary concerns would be food,water,cover,escape routes etc and all of them add up to one common concern and that is survival.As said they are a tough resilliant animal and have bounced back from herd reductions due to bad winters,fires,drought and other issues going back thru the years.The predetor issue as a whole has taken its toll on the methow herd the last 2 to 3 years and probably even so prior to that,now with another predetor in the mix and in my opinion the one who has and will do the most damage to a herd in the shortest amount of time the future may look bleak. Thinking like a deer,i've got to survive,my habits may need to change,my haunts will change and my migration routes may need to change just to "survive".A percentage will weather this PREDETOR STORM but like many have said and i agree with,the glory days of the methow herd are gone and i dont really know if they will ever(or be allowed) to bounce back from this issue. :twocents:

Offline Special T

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #81 on: October 07, 2013, 12:04:53 PM »
18 years of facts on the ground have proven that the USFWS, IDFG, MT, WY, OR and WDFW- state game agencies are liars where the Illegally Introduced Wolves are concerned.

We the People didn't have to do anything. The Wolves proved David Mech, the world renowned wolf specialist was a liar, he was even forced to admit he lied to further the wolf agenda. The Canadian wolves have made liars out of everyone who pushed them.

In the past W-H  said it was good that the pro-wolf crowd ask questions! But now the wolves have answered all of the questions, and still we have those who claim to be ignorant


The environmentalist who have made millions with the wolf lie, are now moving to the wolverine.

More Habitat? More lawsuits? $$$$$$$$$$$$ And the ignorance continues!

http://nwsportsmanmag.com/editors-blog/calling-bs-on-a-wolf-story/
Andy Walgamott
October 25, 2012 at 9:17 am · Reply
It’s very appropriate for wildlife advocates of all stripes to speak up in their defense — hunters, anglers, birdwatchers, the wolfies, urban, suburban, rural, etc., etc. A quote that’s been circulating of late points out that even if we’re all suspicious of each other, it’s a helluva lot better than if we were apathetic over the natural world:

“I’d much sooner have a world filled with people who are so vitally concerned with wildlife that they fight all the time about it than a world in which nobody gives a damn,” said Shane Mahoney at Idaho Fish & Game’s Wildlife Summit.

But the problem that my article gets at is that this wolf reintroduction story that Wolfbait is circulating is a flat-out lie and hurts the above efforts in the Methow Valley.

His fantasy aims to create an air of mistrust with the agency that has actually focused a ton of its energy, time and money in the valley to do what? Buy lowland ranches/undeveloped property from willing sellers to set it aside as crucial winter range for the state’s most important mule deer herd. They’ve done a fantastic job ensuring that the migratory and local animals have a place to live in a beautiful valley that’s highly attractive to getaway home buyers. Below the national forest there are now 31,000 acres along the sides of the valley from Mazama to Carlton set aside and which primarily benefit the deer I hunt every fall.

Besides the suspicious name, Wolfbait’s actions are counterproductive. And they have the potential to be economically harmful to a region that depends, partially, on hunter revenue in fall. We’ve seen in the Northern Rockies what the mere whiff of the word “decimate” applied way too broadly and eagerly to game herds by those with agendas has done to nonresident hunter numbers, though to be fair increased license prices and the recession are also to blame.

You can be rightfully angry at fish and game departments for any number of good reasons, but being angry and making up stories about nefarious activities that are completely implausible is not helpful.

Defending those who lie is not helpful either.

AW
NWS

IF the WDFW or USFS were so trustworthy, surely they wouldn't mind sharing some basic information... for example.. How many wolves have been collared? What is the general geograpic region in which they have been collared. What are some of the Basic travel patterns of wolves here in WA. What insight do we now have from collaring wolves?

I realize that they may not want to give specifics so that people who dislike wolves  can't go shoot them. Iw would be great tho to find out why we are seeing collard wolves in places that they say have NO WOLVES!

Trust is EARNED! The WDFW and USFS have done Very little to earn any trust on this issue. I understand that few of us hunters are excited about our new predator.  The departments cramming it down our throats  doesn't help hunters OR the department... I don't think they have nearly as many hunters working for them as they should. EVEN if they took the same course that they have now, thier excecution could have been much better... I'm ASSuming that thier efforts ar genuine...

Since they are acting like they have something to hide, and cram everything down our throat.... Lack of trust shouldn't really be that surprising.  :twocents:
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline CAMPMEAT

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #82 on: October 07, 2013, 01:39:02 PM »
I think the WDFW is being so secretive because they are getting Federal monies, for whatever reason, to hide any information. Plus, the wolf lovers, PETA, Conservation NW and whoever else is involved in the " GREEN " movement, is/has/or will be suing the WDFW if they release any truths (?) about wolves. You've noticed that when a call is placed to WDFW about a sighting, it's blown off as a hybrid, or, there aren't any wolf packs there....... We have a helluva lot more eyes in the woods than the WDFW and we're treated like we're idiots.


Just a hunch.........
I couldn't care less about what anybody says..............

Offline Special T

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #83 on: October 07, 2013, 03:16:39 PM »
Really we need some well placed FOI requests.  I have heard that  it is a bear cat to phrase them correctly so that you actually get your request. I beliver there is plenty of information out there that would damn the WDFW it just has to be found/brought to light. :twocents:
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline CAMPMEAT

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #84 on: October 07, 2013, 03:25:44 PM »
Freedom of Information Act ???
I couldn't care less about what anybody says..............

Offline JLS

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #85 on: October 07, 2013, 03:29:38 PM »
IF the WDFW or USFS were so trustworthy, surely they wouldn't mind sharing some basic information... for example.. How many wolves have been collared? What is the general geograpic region in which they have been collared. What are some of the Basic travel patterns of wolves here in WA. What insight do we now have from collaring wolves?


Have you asked?
Matthew 7:13-14

Offline Special T

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #86 on: October 07, 2013, 03:40:49 PM »
I know the question has been asked, but not by me. I know Freedom Of Information act paper work has been submitted to the USFS several times on several issues.... Unfortuanlty you either come up with info not relevent to your search or PILES of info that you still have to sort through. FOI requests have to percise in what they ask for... you almost need someone with lots of experience to help you with the direction and correct verbage...

JLS you can ask and get their canned answers with nothing to back them up. So you can take them at thier word....
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline JLS

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #87 on: October 07, 2013, 05:37:00 PM »
JLS you can ask and get their canned answers with nothing to back them up. So you can take them at thier word....

If you are going to insinuate that the information was being withheld, I would at least expect that the specific questions have been asked.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 06:18:32 PM by JLS »
Matthew 7:13-14

Offline JLS

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #88 on: October 07, 2013, 06:15:45 PM »
Also, as someone that's had to deal with FOIAs before, I can tell you they are a royal pain.  I don't know how many times I've sat by the photocopier, wondering to myself why the person couldn't just call on the phone and ask what they wanted to know.

I think you would be surprised at how candid folks can be when you call them up and ask them your questions.  Whether or not you want to believe the answer is entirely up to you.  Given the info that it seems you are wanting and the answers you don't seem to want to accept, maybe you should submit a FOIA to Wolfbait.
Matthew 7:13-14

Offline Special T

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Re: Since Wolves
« Reply #89 on: October 07, 2013, 11:14:07 PM »
Since you stated it I will do just that... HOWEVER I have called the WDFW on several of occasions for relatively simple questions, and gotten the run around or gotten 3 different answers.

I am skeptical of the WDFW for these reasons
1 i know for a fact that they are afraid of organizations like DoW because of the cost of lawsuits.
2 WDFW has less hunters working for the department  every year, and many die hard hunters that loved some kind of hunting are retiring.
3 ESA funds seem to rule. Duck hunting seems to revolve around "salmon restoration". Federal funds seem to be a necessity.
4 we have rules proposed by people that have ZERO knowledge of hunting. Do you remember the proposed restrictions on coyote hunting? 22 cal and #8 bird shot? I do... Safety is a 22-250 or bird shot....
I could go on...

If you have some insight as to the WHO i should contact, OR the specific verbiage i should use feel free to PM me. I have no doubt that FIO that you have dealt with are :bash:.  The problem is ANYTHING is writing has legal recourse and verbal info  is worth nothing.

As to wolf bait... he has provided more 3rd party info on wolves than anyone else i can think of on hunt wa. you may thin him a  :tinfoil: but he has provided more info than any other source.  :twocents:
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

 


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